Re: man and moose

#3
Thanks for the link to the thread, Robert. One thing that wasn't mentioned there is the way the object held in the right hand of the figure seems to intersect the narrow white frame - in a similar way to the stag's nose - I'm wondering what shape of vessel would fit into that space. Perhaps a wide-bottomed flask, narrowing to a slimish neck? The right hand looks slightly odd to be holding the neck of a vessel, unless what is being seen is not a bent thumb but one that is behind the missing object - as it is, it looks almost as if a twig is being held. The lines nearest the body do suggest water being poured, and the explanation re. Diana restoring her lost virginity feels right from all the the evidence on the other thread, but as so often with these old cards, ambiguity continues to tantalize and mystery lingers.

The stag's head is wonderful...

Pen
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

Re: man and moose

#6
Mmfelesi, how can anyone (no matter who they are), sitting back to front on a stag, naked except for a necklace, and either pouring water on their private parts or doing something mysterious related to the same, possibly be boring....!? (*)


Pen
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

Invisibility

#8
What makes you think there is an invisible flask or ewer in her right hand pouring water?

1. The embossed designs on the gold foil background does not seem to be part of the "foreground" image in these cards. I can think of two "exceptions." In the Visconti Sforza, some of the figures are "wearing" gold-embossed clothing. Also in that deck, the "talk-balloons" of the figures on the Wheel of Fortune are embedded in the gold-embossed background. But these examples are very different from saying that there is a major symbolic element of the card buried in the embossing.

2. Seeing the damaged edges of the card, I can't see how a painted flask or ewer could have flaked off out of her hand without leaving clear signs of the damage. It looks to me like the artists laid down the paint first and added the gold leaf background afterwards, working around the painted elements. This makes sense in terms of saving gold and time, and more importantly, having a more solid base for the paint to adhere to.

So for these reasons I believe it is a lovely fantasy, but no more, that the figure is or was holding a flask or ewer and pouring it on herself.

Re: Invisibility

#9
debra wrote:What makes you think there is an invisible flask or ewer in her right hand pouring water?
The outlines of the cup I think are still visible on close inspection. As pen notes the inverted triangular, fan shaped base crosses into the white frame, as I see it the wide (somewhat sunflower head like) bowl also crosses the body of the figure under her armpit and over the top of her breast area.
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Invisibility

#10
Hi debra,
debra wrote:What makes you think there is an invisible flask or ewer in her right hand pouring water?

1. The embossed designs on the gold foil background does not seem to be part of the "foreground" image in these cards. I can think of two "exceptions." In the Visconti Sforza, some of the figures are "wearing" gold-embossed clothing. Also in that deck, the "talk-balloons" of the figures on the Wheel of Fortune are embedded in the gold-embossed background. But these examples are very different from saying that there is a major symbolic element of the card buried in the embossing.

2. Seeing the damaged edges of the card, I can't see how a painted flask or ewer could have flaked off out of her hand without leaving clear signs of the damage. It looks to me like the artists laid down the paint first and added the gold leaf background afterwards, working around the painted elements. This makes sense in terms of saving gold and time, and more importantly, having a more solid base for the paint to adhere to.

So for these reasons I believe it is a lovely fantasy, but no more, that the figure is or was holding a flask or ewer and pouring it on herself.
I think the cup or vessel is clearly visible and is no fantasy. The stem, widening near the base, retains paint. The outline of the base itself goes outside the border of the card. The cup itself is very clearly outlined, and covers part of the pectoral of the figure.

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What the left hand is holding, or doing, is harder to see.
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