Re: Clouds above the Lovers

#11
Hi Eugim!
On the Charles V1 card the cupids are pointing past and behind three couples? Why I think they are looking to hit the couples that are not involved in Love but arranged marriages. It is a pun on Morgantic marriages or dalliances that are for poetic love not for politic love.
As to no hidden structure in Tarot- that could make sense- but how does one investigate that?
I have always thought it was like the monkey typing and accidently writing a dictionary lol.
~Lorredan~
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: Clouds above the Lovers

#12
Hi Lorredan:
I m not able to think if you re male or women ( Please clear to me at soon please...)
I like to send as Mr or Mrs ...
I m 47 years old you know...

My answer is : Love is blind ...

So it s deliberate where the angel pointing I think...

Eugim
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: Clouds above the Lovers

#14
EUGIM wrote:Mr or Madam ...

Which is it s mean for you All members : LOL ?

Eugim/So Migue= Miguel /So Michael ...

Eugim

Well really, Eugim, all this time I could have been calling you Leugim? :lol:

I do think that what is shown on the Judgement card is likely to have been intended for the Lovers as well.
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: Clouds above the Lovers

#15
(On a personal note, nice to see that I had surmised your name from your username correctly, Miguel! :))

I like your suggestion that of the three individuals can be seen as
The Master,the disciple and the "Earth love temptation"
Makes for great meditative work !

In terms of the intent of the image, I frankly think it derived from a marriage scene, with celebrant and couple, but even as such, it can be seen as that of master, of aspirant, and of earthly love... something required in order to strive towards divine love.
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Re: Clouds above the Lovers

#16
JMD:
It s an honour for me just that you replay to me as equal Le Pendu. and also of course the all others qualifed members..
I m proud to be here.
(Sometimes I feel very distant from "the center point of meeting..." /Just as my avatar image Icon)

-For me wasn t never clear if the left figure is a male depiction or female.
By the way I only found a clear difference on Chosson deck.
I m sure that you realize the " hands dialogue " between the actors of the card,so I think it s unnecessary develop here.
From "there" comes my thesis Bro...
So that drives for me to the VII card.So if the disciple choose the Sophia Love (Depict by the Master advice )
See for me the Master left as an advice and his right hand pointing to the Disciple "Zone sex" ( It s clearly wrote ? )

(It s a heart (Hear heart ? ) // wonderful surprise "see" you again / Compagnon ... )
Yes,again " The Universe is a like a Mamushka "

Eugim
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: Clouds above the Lovers

#17
EUGIM wrote:It s an honour for me just that you replay to me as equal Le Pendu. and also of course the all others qualifed members..
I m proud to be here.
(Sometimes I feel very distant from "the center point of meeting..." /Just as my avatar image Icon)
LOL. Knock it off Eugim, people will think you're yet another of my alter egos! Don't make me go get James out of the staff room, he's famous for removing the trays of goodies, and we'll all get upset if he does that. You're welcome and belong, just like everyone else... well, everyone except that Bianca person. Visconti indeed!
EUGIM wrote:-For me wasn t never clear if the left figure is a male depiction or female.
By the way I only found a clear difference on Chosson deck.
I m sure that you realize the " hands dialogue " between the actors of the card,so I think it s unnecessary develop here.
From "there" comes my thesis Bro...
So that drives for me to the VII card.So if the disciple choose the Sophia Love (Depict by the Master advice )
See for me the Master left as an advice and his right hand pointing to the Disciple "Zone sex" ( It s clearly wrote ? )

(It s a heart (Hear heart ? ) // wonderful surprise "see" you again / Compagnon ... )
Yes,again " The Universe is a like a Mamushka "

Eugim
I'm still not sure what is supposed to be depicted on this card, or even what it should be named. I tend to look to the early references where the cards was called "Love", and like JMD, suspect that what is intended might have been as simple as a wedding. Especially when we consider the early cards like the Visconti:

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Now on the Tarot de Marseille, it does look to me as if one of the characters has flowers in her hair, and the other has laurel leaves, so it's easy enough to see the famous "choice" usually used to describe the card, especially if considered a choice between Virtue and.. um.. sensual pleasures. :)
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: Clouds above the Lovers

#18
For me, it's not only the Visconti-type decks that show marriage, but also other images from the period show a three-fold aspect of marriage reminiscent of the Tarot de Marseille-type depiction. I realise I have before posted these images on AT, but given their pertinence to this thread, here are a few from amongst many:
Wedding2.jpg
Wedding2.jpg (15.92 KiB) Viewed 4835 times
Wedding1.jpg
Wedding1.jpg (23.14 KiB) Viewed 4835 times
Spiegel des menschlichen Lebens , Augsburg, about 1475-76.jpg
Spiegel des menschlichen Lebens , Augsburg, about 1475-76.jpg (70.1 KiB) Viewed 4834 times
Raphael_VI.jpg
15thWedding romancereaderatheart.com.jpg
15thWedding romancereaderatheart.com.jpg (19.96 KiB) Viewed 4825 times
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Re: Clouds above the Lovers

#19
Hello my Steiner brother...
Well what we wouldn t think about Cupid,son of Jupier son,so as an adultery induce to... ?
Surely you know this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Ass

-So we have here a problem I think my caro amicci ...
1-Surely are you that them are a couple ?
2-Surely aren t them two males disciples ? (Vieville)
3-See what the decks shows entirely different patterns,so meanings...

Just for me is a Master advicing to the young disciple to not take an adultery way,so lost the PATH...
So then at VII card he show to us he choosed the right way...

Eugim
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: Clouds above the Lovers

#20
I personally do not think the Vieville shows two masculine disciples, but rather that the image is consistent with that of a wedding, in this case the 'celebrant' likely depicted on the right of the card, the groom in the centre (his tights show him to be masculine), and the bride on the left (her dress indicates this).

This does not prevent us seeing into the image some other interpretative possibilities - including that of discipleship, but frankly do not see this as likely intent.
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