At the top of this card there is a Griffin or Gryphon,so not an Sphinx,here there is an example of the Cathedral of Notre Dame :
* The delicate suggestion of the Gryphon ready to fly is awesome,a perfect art masterly example done...
Re: Exporing The Wheel of Fortune
2Are you suggesting a Gryphon (griffin) on the top of The Wheel of Fortune?EUGIM wrote:At the top of this card there is a Griffin or Gryphon,so not an Sphinx,here there is an example of the Cathedral of Notre Dame :
* The delicate suggestion of the Gryphon ready to fly is awesome,a perfect art masterly example done...
I think most early decks show some sort of ruler, perhaps a king, and I suspect at some time the animal features sometime attributed to the figures got morphed into what was later interpreted as a sphinx. I don't think anyone intended to show a gryphon.
Jean Noblet Tarot:
Re: Exporing The Wheel of Fortune
3Of course clearly Vieville and Noblet both show a human face with a human body.
But after these decks we have wings and a tail.
The face is changed towards an animal one.
As for example in the case of Conver and Choson.
There we can see that the face and body is closest to a Gryphon,so not to an Sphinx which has boobs and usually a woman face.
In all the cases is a King.
But after these decks we have wings and a tail.
The face is changed towards an animal one.
As for example in the case of Conver and Choson.
There we can see that the face and body is closest to a Gryphon,so not to an Sphinx which has boobs and usually a woman face.
In all the cases is a King.
The Universe is like a Mamushka.
Re: Exporing The Wheel of Fortune
4Of course, for me personally, this is just another example of degradation. The carvers (not knowing? not caring?) what was being depicted just continued to copy the mistakes and/or tried to make some sense of the drawings and "corrected" them.
Tarot de Marseille Type I tends to more clearly show the king, Tarot de Marseille Type II has the Sphinx. I tend to see a sphinx more than a griffin on the Tarot de Marseille II, I think it is the little goatee on the chin that looks like the one on the pyramid.
Like on this guy:
Tarot de Marseille Type I tends to more clearly show the king, Tarot de Marseille Type II has the Sphinx. I tend to see a sphinx more than a griffin on the Tarot de Marseille II, I think it is the little goatee on the chin that looks like the one on the pyramid.
Like on this guy:
Re: Exporing The Wheel of Fortune
6I personally totally agree with Robert on this: wit the Tarot de Marseille-I and early decks, the figure atop the wheel is 'simply' a crowned person, ie, a representation of a (perhaps caped) crowned King.
But then, the other two (or three, in earliest depictions) beings circling the wheel are also human, whereas in the Tarot de Marseille-I they are already shown as animal - in the Noblet as Ass (ascending) and Monkey (descending).
On a side note , Robert, I'm not sure what you mean in the post 'this is just another example of degradation' with the image of the Sphinx... are you suggesting that the Tarot de Marseille-II is a degradation from Atlantis to Egypt that has further been altered in the Tarot de Marseille-II ?
But then, the other two (or three, in earliest depictions) beings circling the wheel are also human, whereas in the Tarot de Marseille-I they are already shown as animal - in the Noblet as Ass (ascending) and Monkey (descending).
On a side note , Robert, I'm not sure what you mean in the post 'this is just another example of degradation' with the image of the Sphinx... are you suggesting that the Tarot de Marseille-II is a degradation from Atlantis to Egypt that has further been altered in the Tarot de Marseille-II ?
Re: Exporing The Wheel of Fortune
8Notre Dame is not tarot.EUGIM wrote:* Notre Dame again:
I just don't see the point of this. I don't think it's a Griffin or a Sphinx, I think it's a really crappy copy of a king figure that got corrupted over time and someone eventually thought it looked somewhat like a Sphinx. Hell, I'm even willing to think that on the Tarot de Marseille II it is supposed to be a Griffin, but I guess I just don't care because I think either would be a mistake.
As JMD famously does, I suppose I should express that the opinion offered in this post refers to actual development of the iconography itself from a purely historical point of view, and is not intended as a suggestion that someone couldn't choose to see a Griffin, Sphinx, or any other creature sitting atop the Wheel of Fortune, especially in terms of a "reading".
Re: Exporing The Wheel of Fortune
9Egypt ?
- Where ?
* Is there not an sphinx as Steve showed to us,at the V card of the TdP ???
- Where ?
* Is there not an sphinx as Steve showed to us,at the V card of the TdP ???
The Universe is like a Mamushka.
Re: Exploring The Wheel of Fortune
10And italians decks are not Tarot de Marseille...
The Universe is like a Mamushka.