A lost Gringonneur/Estensi copy?

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I posted this on another forum a while back, but for those who may have missed it, here it is again.

Debra sent me a link to some photos of what appear to be a couple of 18th or 19th century hand drawn cards.
The one on the right, with the sword, appears to be a copy of the Valet d'epee from the Gringonneur/Estensi deck in the Bibliotheque Nationale.

17 cards survive from the Gringonneur/Estensi deck.
16 majors, and le Valet d'epee from the minors.
Current thinking dates them to the mid-15th century, Venice. Probably.

But none of them look like the other of our hand drawn later copies.

So, the big question here...
Is this an old copy of a now lost Gringonneur/Estensi card?

According to Kaplan, the Gringonneur/Estensi deck was bequeathed to the King in 1711, along with other prints and drawings from the M. de Gaignieres collection, an assistant tutor to the grandchildren of Louis XIV.
I'd like to know if we can verify that the deck consisted of 17 cards at that time, which would indicate that these drawings would have had to have been made prior to 1711, when the deck could have been bigger.

It's hard to date the drawings, or authenticate them without actually handling them in person.
Of course, the drawings could be a total fake.
Or, if the drawings are old, the "unknown" one could be an old fantasy reconstruction, based upon the other.

Or, is there some other known source that the other card was copied from?

In any case, it's an interesting find.
I am not a cannibal.

Re: A lost Gringonneur/Estensi copy?

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Wow OnePotato, that's quite a discovery!

I would assume we are looking at the Valet of Batons? What else could it be?

If it is batons, I don't recall ever seeing a Baton in that style, like a weapon, if a match for that exists anywhere it would certainly be interesting to know about.

Sorry I can't be of any real help, but I do appreciate you posting and hope that someone might be able to add some more information.

Re: A lost Gringonneur/Estensi copy?

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Well, I don't know what to think. Without a hint of provenance we are left to read the images themselves and rely on what we know of the Charles VI cards.

These cards don't look like real cards, more like reproductions on a single sheet of paper (not three layers to make pasteboard). They are certinaly not "originals" anyway, with gilding and expensive pigments. The damage also looks manufactured rather than natural - very clean like a cut in some places, and also sure not to do too much damage to the figures on the cards.

Gaignières' own notes listing the cards in his possession only note the 17 we still have, so this Valet of Batons must be either a copy of something else or a fabrication, or these copies must pre-date the late 17th century (when Gaignières wrote), which seems unlikely.

Generously I would suggest they are illustrations to be glued into a book, with the V of Batons made to correspond to another known pack. Ungenerously I would suggest they are deliberate forgeries.
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