Re: Joseph Henri Rochias ( 1816 )

#41
D'Allemagne has five Proches -

Jean Proche, Agen, 1713
Jean (son) Proche, Agen, 1745
Proche (widow), Agen, 1745
Pierre Proche, Clermont, 1747-1748
Jean Proche, Clermont, 1776

I haven't looked at the text yet, but it seems we have a generation of Jean Proche and his wife, then the son Jean has his own business and his mother runs his father's; a second generation has set up in Clermont.

Ross
Image

Re: Joseph Henri Rochias ( 1816 )

#42
EUGIM wrote:Okay...
But just see the Kbight of coins,he is riding towards to the left.
I like the Knight of coins on cover of following pdf catalogue - horse going right, figure facing left:)
More details on the cavalier de denier au portrait de Navarre on p.11 entry 91.

On current topic, see also p.22, entry 225 on Rochias Tarot.

http://www.tajan.com/pdf/2004/4522.pdf
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Joseph Henri Rochias ( 1816 )

#43
Thanks for the auction catalog Steve, so it says:
Tarot "de Marseille" suisse : Jacques Rochias, Neuchâtel, vers 1800 (bois daté 1782 sur 4D, ici manquant), grav. sur bois, couleurs au pochoir ; 54/78 cartes, enseignes latines, 118 x 60 mm ; dos : semis de croisillons bleus ; sur le 2D : "fait par jacque [sic] rochias fils a neuchâtel. ", sur l'AD : "grave par J. P. Pe" (prob. Jean Proché) ; sur l'atout VII : JP. Bois fatigué (O'Donoghue 1901, Swiss 7 ; Kaplan 1978, 153).
This all gets weirder and weirder.

In the Schweizer Spielkarten 2 Catalog that Ross and I have been looking at, there are 3 decks by the Rochias family.

Deck #1. Jacques Rochias fils - 1782, 75 out of 78 Cards
This is the deck that I scanned that has the strange Devil. The image that Eugim posted from playing card museum looks exactly the same. I would like to think that the deck is the same, but I am not sure.

Deck #2. Jacques Rochias fils - Second half of 18th century, 39 out of 78 Cards
The Death here also has the title and is very similar to the Death in Deck #1, but the hand sticking up under Death is different, so I can tell that it isn't from this deck. The Devil here looks just like a typical Tarot de Marseille II Devil.. just like Conver or Chosson. This is not the deck that shows up on the playing card museum.

Deck #3. Joseph Henri Rochias - 1816, 78 out of 78 Cards
Very similar to deck #2 above. Death matches #2, and Devil matches #2.. typical Tarot de Marseille II Devil. This is not the deck that shows up on the playing card museum.

So we have three decks, and I think we can sort of assume that the deck posted on the playing card museum site ( http://lexic.ru/WWPCM/decks03/d01622/d01622.htm is mislabeled as the Joseph Henri Rochias.

But. It is weird that the pictures in the catalog of Deck #1 don't show the Ace of Cups, so we can't be sure that it is a match. But the playing card museum Ace of Cups does seem to match Deck #2, but not the trumps or courts.

Another weird thing is that the playing card museum is missing so many of the cards, supposedly for Deck #1 there are 75 remaining, and 78 for the JH Rochias.. so why are so many missing? Did he only have limited access?

Now you post the auction catalog, and doesn't it say that in that deck there are 54 of the cards remaining? We don't have a 54 card deck yet!

So... is the deck in the auction catalog yet another deck? Is the deck on the playing card museum yet another deck?
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: Joseph Henri Rochias ( 1816 )

#44
robert wrote:So... is the deck in the auction catalog yet another deck? Is the deck on the playing card museum yet another deck?

Appears to be another deck, there being a different number of cards remaining in each deck recorded.
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

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