Re: Vieville :It is really a reversed deck ?

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Exactly what happens if an image is inverted?
What HAPPENS if some cards are, and some are not?

Who decided which way the image should "face"?
Was it the publisher?
Was it the artist?
Was it the engraver?
Was it a writer?
Was it someone else?

Please feel free to apply these questions to "The Emperor's New Clothes" thread as well.
I am not a cannibal.

Re: Vieville :It is really a reversed deck ?

42
In many cases, the inverted (or mirrored) image is not of any significance, and certainly for the image as intended for gaming purposes, the orientation becomes immaterial.

...but (and here's the 'but'), what imagery DOES indicate, I suggest, is that in many instances they are copies of copies of copies, in that the 'original' image would have some of its details 'naturally' following the standard expectation of the times: swords in right-hand; shield heraldic device correctly oriented; right raised pouring hand; etc.

What happens when some cards are inverted and some not, then, results in details not being deemed as important to be careful about in some cards, and in others perhaps of greater significance - not withstanding the more general artistic comments earlier made that also enables the artist/woodcutter to freely use and orient much in his (or her) own manner.
Image
&
Image
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Re: Vieville :It is really a reversed deck ?

43
EnriqueEnriquez wrote:Thanks OnePotato.

Now, you wrote:
OnePotato wrote: I think that visual language "worked" differently than today's written language, so that the "structure" of thought was different.
I believe it was non-linear...


The trouble with the modern quest for consistency is that it was not deemed necessary.
That is both the beauty and the strength of the old system.

Could you expand on that, please?


EE
Writing proceeds along a line:
Thought follows thought follows thought.

A visual image appears in a cluster.
Thoughts appear simultaneously.

For example:
Take a picture of Micky Mouse in a fireman suit.
And...
Take a written description of Micky Mouse wearing a fireman suit.

Note how you process the information.

Now, for both of these, crop off the left half of the image.
What happens to the written description when you do that?

Anyway, this belongs in another thread.
I am not a cannibal.

Re: Vieville :Is it really a reversed deck ?

45
EUGIM wrote:Regarding the III card,one can see that the Empress hang the shield with his left hand,so contrary the others decks.
But the head of the eagle is pointing to the right side as all the decks.

* So why Vieville respected this detail ?
I believe that this is a clear indication that the sequence investment is deliberately and not by a negativización of the impression.

Cheers!

Re: Vieville :Is it really a reversed deck ?

46
Returning to the case of XXI card,as I remarked earlier,only the lion and the bull are inverted.
So not the Angel and the eagle.

* May be Vieville did not fall in a clumsy mistake thanks for many bottles of Malbec...

1-Germany = Bruschal Manuscript year of 1220 :

Image


2-France= Abbey of Cluny:



-I remark the case of Bruschal manuscript to show that is not the Cluny the only example,so a french one.
Last edited by EUGIM on 16 May 2009, 14:55, edited 1 time in total.
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: Vieville :Is it really a reversed deck ?

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Personally, I like Vieville's arrangement, and like you, I went out looking. I found many that matched his. I brought this up with JMD years ago... and he said "Yes, but there are also lots of others with other arrangements if you keep looking", and indeed, he's correct. There are images in almost any arrangement, so there doesn't seem to have been a standard.

That said, Vieville's is my favorite, and if I were to guess which, in the tarot, is the oldest arrangement, I would guess his.

What is a mystery, as you have pointed out, is that the image is not reversed, but simply different. Is it because Vieville and Tarot de Marseille artists were copying from different versions? Is it because at some point there was a reason to switch the Lion and the Bull?

So yes.. I too prefer Vieville, but unfortunately, there are also lots of images that match Sforza Castle and the rest of the Tarot de Marseille as well... so we pointing to other examples doesn't seem like it is going to prove anything one way or another. Unless I'm not considering something?
cron