Tarot History Forum

robert wrote: Do you think there is some connection to the Bateleur with a tightrope walker? I mean, is it just referring to the use of the stick? Or to the "juggler" aspect of him?

I finally found out that the Bateleur Eagle was so named during the late crusades. It was named because of the Eagle's walk and landing- with tipping it's wings as if balancing with a pole. A tight rope walker- not a juggler, but maybe an acrobat.

Now I was wondering if the Balancing act was the important aspect- someone who walks between the Church and the Street- a pun on the Priest? Like cards- the con of making your money dissapear? Those type of associations. Kind of like the Pea game- the Eucharist? First you see it, now you don't? An altar (the table) to the game?
No wonder this deck is Steve's wish list header- I love it.
~Lorredan

SteveM wrote:Would you say the hat of our TdP bateleur is very similar to that of the CY-sheet ( both of whom also share the attribute of a monkey).

Hi Steve,

Sorry I missed this. Yes, I think the two are very similar.

Here is the Cary Sheet (on the left, with the Conver on the right)


and the TdP:


And yes, the rube does look like the character on The Lovers. I also agree about the woman on Strength.

It's nice to see interest in this deck, it is one of my favourites and deserving of much more exploration, so I really appreciate that you're bringing up these interesting details.

I wonder, does anyone know what the subject is of the Moon card? Is it a serenade?

Is a beautifull deck, great borders, are part of the same engraving?
the broken number box of le mat is fantastic...

Lorredan wrote:

robert wrote: Do you think there is some connection to the Bateleur with a tightrope walker? I mean, is it just referring to the use of the stick? Or to the "juggler" aspect of him?

I finally found out that the Bateleur Eagle was so named during the late crusades. It was named because of the Eagle's walk and landing- with tipping it's wings as if balancing with a pole. A tight rope walker- not a juggler, but maybe an acrobat.

Now I was wondering if the Balancing act was the important aspect- someone who walks between the Church and the Street- a pun on the Priest? Like cards- the con of making your money dissapear? Those type of associations. Kind of like the Pea game- the Eucharist? First you see it, now you don't? An altar (the table) to the game?
No wonder this deck is Steve's wish list header- I love it.
~Lorredan

There are certainly some connections between the Bateleur and a priest, as Jean-Michel has pointed out before (was it in his PDF class?). I'm notorious (and surely throwing coals on my fire in hell) for calling the Eucharist "The magic trick", something that really effected me when researching the Anglo-Catholics last year... basically, this was one of the main reasons for the twist of the Anglican Church back towards Catholicism from several hundred years of focus on the "word" of god, now, because the "authority" of the Church depended on Apostolic Succession, the focus returned to "the magic trick" and the altar.

Nevertheless, I usually see the same thing in this icongraphy: a trickster looking for a rube.

lamort wrote:Is a beautifull deck, great borders, are part of the same engraving?
the broken number box of le mat is fantastic...

I think the borders are part of the engraving, unless someone else knows otherwise??

Yes, the upper number area on the Fool is very cool.

Is it my imagination? Is the Fool's hat a face? Like he is walking backwards as seen from behind?
~Lorredan

Good god I see it too. And a giant ear!

You've got quite an eye, Lorredan.

No,, it's not your imagination, there is indeed a face. I thought I had mentioned it, but can't find it.

SteveM

It was over at AT not here:

I love all the little faces the artist includes, the way the fools hat forms the shape of another face at his back for example; the figures on the popesses chair and on the chair of the serenader in the moon card. And the hell's mouth head of card XVI is fantastic...

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php? ... stcount=47

robert wrote: I wonder, does anyone know what the subject is of the Moon card? Is it a serenade?

The naked figure on the side of the serenaders chair/chariot: is it riding an ass? a stag, unicorn? And is that a human faced swan beside it?

lorredan wrote: ...a pun on priest.

The connection between the gamester as a sort of mock priest was made as far back as the 15th century 'games as invention of the devil' sermons; as for example in the Steele sermon.