Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

#81
Thanks Steve!
It looks like a dead chicken is hanging over his left shoulder too!

I find the Moon card creepy- can't exactly say why- something to do with the hand of the gazer in a Pinz nez formation, I think. Something purient maybe.

~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

#83
Thereagain he is hardly gazing at her surreptitiously, he is plucking (the pinz nez hand) at harp strings and so is openly present... there is a certain 'dirty old man' look upon his face though :P

Is it the same blonde hair woman who was apparently touching the lovers penis do you think? Is he the lover? (The face is somewhat different I think, but they are wearing the same type of hat).
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

#84
Lorredan wrote:Thanks Steve!
It looks like a dead chicken is hanging over his left shoulder too!
hehehe..oh yes:

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That I hadn't noticed :)
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

#85
Maybe it is not a chicken but an Eagle for the King LOL! =))

anyways about the Plucking gentleman -to me it is sort of sinister like this Harp song....

For he pou'd out a lang thing
A meikle thing a strang thing
For he pou'd out a lang thing
Just like a stannin' tree
an plucked me like a pear.........

That sort of Bawdy inference :ymtongue:

~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

#87
robert wrote:Let's consider the Popess.

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I really like this Papesse. There is so much happening in this image that it's hard to focus on any one thing. The book, the key, the crown, the statues, the drapes... where do we begin?

Well, let's start with her crown, in many of the Tarot de Marseille images it's honestly difficult to tell if she is really wearing the "triple crown" of the papacy, or a double crown or even a bishop's mitre. I think I would feel pretty confident is stating that she is indeed wearing the triple crown on the Tarot de Paris. Let's compare her to the Noblet, Dodal and Chosson:

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On the Tarot de Paris, she holds a book in her hands as is typical in most images of the Popess, in her other hand she holds a Key which isn't found in the Tarot de Marseille versions of this card. I'm under the impression that the book would probably indicate a "Doctor of Canon Law" and that the key would represent the one of the keys in his insignia, the keys of St Peter. Can anyone tell me if these assumptions are correct? Why not two keys?

The way she holds the book is extremely funny to me. She seems to be balancing it on the arm of her throne and touching it ever so preciously, a very different image than the book in the lap that we commonly see.

The arms on her throne are held up by extremely ornate statues, I find the one on the right particularly curious, is he glancing across at the other statue? Whatever they are, they are fantastic.

Behind the Popess are very ornate drapes, and I love that I can clearly see the hangings. This is exactly what I imagine the curtains behind the Popess "should" look like, but in the Tarot de Marseille the lines seem merely to suggest this. Here, I can see the gathers and ties that make up the drapery that falls on either side, as well as the curtains behind her. It's lovely.

I think my favourite thing on this card though is what, I think, is a pillow under her feet! I think I can see the tassels hanging from the side as well. I've never been sure what the area in front of her was supposed to represent on the Tarot de Marseille. JMD has suggested a few items before, including a spinning wheel which I must say the spokes do remind me of. Now, I wonder if it might actually be a pillow? What do you think?

Now, I don't think we can discuss the Tarot de Paris Popess without mentioning an even earlier card that is strikingly similar: the Catelin Geoffroy, from Lyon, dated 1557:

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and for comparison's sake, let's add in the Vievile:

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What are your thoughts when comparing these cards?
It always strikes me when I see her how extraordinary this particular Popess is. The Popesses in the different historical decks are all very dignified (correct me if I'm wrong), which seems to rule out the sometimes-mentioned idea that the Popess card may represent the (over)influential mistress of a pope. ' La Papessa' was apparently a very commonly used and derogatory name for one influential woman in particular, Olimpia Maidalchini, the sister-in-law of Pope Innocent X.

The Popess of the Tarot de Paris, although not in any way undignified, seems to have a very strange attitude to the book - almost (dare I say it?) one of distaste. Given the mastery of the artist/designer of this deck (and surely it'd have been easier to place the book in her lap as on other cards), I'm sure this must be significant in some way, yet for the life of me I can't think of a reason she'd be balancing it on its corner in that particular way, and with that odd expression on her face, unless she represents Pope Joan, who had a pretty tricky balancing act to maintain (if she actually existed). Any ideas?

Pen
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

#88
Pen wrote: The Popess of the Tarot de Paris, although not in any way undignified, seems to have a very strange attitude to the book - almost (dare I say it?) one of distaste.
Image
The way she is twirling the book on its corner the look on her face, posture and display of her slipper appear a little, erm... more like flirtatious and coy to me:)
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

#89
Hmmmm.... That expression could possibly indicate discomfort or concern/worry, but flirtation...? If that was intended then surely the artist has depicted a Popess with a rather casual attitude to The Book and a tendency to show her slipper. Not sure whether to bow to your superior knowledge (or is it experience?) or not Steve... (*)

Pen
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

#90
Something odd has just occurred to me. Suppose this is actually a beardless and effete male pope, and the artist is indicating this by his posture and the somewhat camp gesture with the book. There has to be an explanation for this very idiosyncratic Popess - she's not simply accidental...

Pen
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

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