-Lorredan:
1-Would someone tell me why the Tarot as a game has reversal figures at the cards so different to ours dear Tarot de Marseille ?
May be ours Yves is here " alive" now for that ...

-Lorredan:
1-The mind /s who re-designed the figures of the cards of Tarot de Marseille had to choose a middle point between what they believed and also to adjust to a game card.

eugim

1-So why LA LVNE is not a bottom dark night with regard to LE SOLEIL ?

EUGIM wrote:-Lorredan:
1-Would someone tell me why the Tarot as a game has reversal figures at the cards so different to ours dear Tarot de Marseille ?
May be ours Yves is here " alive" now for that ...

Hello Eugim and all,

I suppose that this new presentation of cards (because it is new regarding History) was made as to facilitate the game of cards: Other opposite players has possibility to well see cards.

Let's say that it is the "Playing cards Tarot Game" version...

Yves Le Marseillais

[quote="Lorredan"]I think you think there is something special about the Conver Tarot, above all the others Eugim.
I have a Camoin AND A Heron Conver, so lets get some things about it discussed.
According to Kaplan my Heron is a reprint of a 1760 deck by N Conver and is based on a Typical Tarot of Marseilles design. There are two N. Conver, both from Marseilles; Nicolas is 1760-1803, N (Nas?) is from 1840-1890.
Roubret is far far better at telling us what type of Tarot de Marseille is a Nicolas Conver. Here is a thread..
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.ph ... las+Conver

Hello Lorredan,

About Nicolas CONVER your Héron Fac Similé is not based on the oldest existant 1760 deck because Thierry Depaulis estimate that BnF Conver 1760 deck (from where is Héron copy coming from) was made later on i.e after 1800 (begining of 19th century).
He add that for him real 1760 Conver deck is located in Japan. Mike Museum. May be other exists ?

About Nas CONVER Tarot deck version, "Nas" means Nicolas CONVER and this version is dated middle or end of 19th century: about 100 years after the initial one. See colors differences for instance.

I both own a Héron copy and a real 1860 (circa) Nas CONVER full deck. Back is deep blue and made of small rocks (cailloux) design.

As many of us I dreams to have in hand a REAL 1760 NICOLAS CONVER Deck. 8-)

Regards,

Yves Le Marseillais

Hello Yves ...
-What do you think about Camoin 1960 bicentenary ?
-Could be a possibility that the house Camoin had the original wood block at that year ?
-The playing cards version was older or not than the version we know ?
The point is important to me because if they were two Tarot de Marseille versions that leave us suppose that which we know as Tarot de Marseille and discuss here had and has another purpose than a game so different meanings of the cards.Could be ?
If not,for what was created another version,I mean not for play ?
Why we are not using the playing card version ?
Just my thoughts...

-On the XVIII card of the Camoin 1960 bicentenary version,both dogs are of the same colour.
Do you know Yves another deck that has the same pattern ?

EUGIM wrote:Hello Yves ...
-What do you think about Camoin 1960 bicentenary ?
-Could be a possibility that the house Camoin had the original wood block at that year ?
-The playing cards version was older or not than the version we know ?
The point is important to me because if they were two Tarot de Marseille versions that leave us suppose that which we know as Tarot de Marseille and discuss here had and has another purpose than a game so different meanings of the cards.Could be ?
If not,for what was created another version,I mean not for play ?
Why we are not using the playing card version ?
Just my thoughts...

Hello Eugim... and all,

I never saw Camoin 1960 Bicentenary version: Only some pictures on web.
But all "Afficionados" knows that it was made up from a very old mould: It's fact.
It give him a sort of charm just like an old house with some pieces destructed, strange colors ect...

In my opinion it cost far too much regarding his effective value. But it is a commercial affair and when we like we pay that's it.

In 1960 Camoin House still had moulds (She gave 6 Tarot moulds to Marseille City Museum circa 1975).
But problem is that wood moulds was very used and tired at this stage/date and when you print with a tired mould, you get a tired reproduction isn' it ?

You are free to use the playing card version if you like it amigo mio.
In this cas, you will lose exactely 50 % of his design: This is mathematical....

Hope you will not lose 50 % of YOUR capacitys

Best

Yves Le Marseillais

-Many thanks mon ami ...
1-Rom a member of this site,has in his the entirely Camoin 1960.
2-I understand that the blocks were too old...
But why again both dogs at LA LVNE card,have the same colour ? /So not different as usual ?
It is only a matter of the printer work of 1960 ?
Do you know another deck with the same pattern ?
3-The playing card version is older than that we know ?
If we accepted that Tarot came to France at 1499 and began as a Tarot game so ...
-We accepted till now that Noblet (1650) is the older ancestor.
What happened in the middle ?
When began the historical playing card version ?
Are two differents Tarot de Marseille currents ?

EUGIM wrote:-Many thanks mon ami ...
1-Rom a member of this site,has in his the entirely Camoin 1960.
2-I understand that the blocks were too old...
But why again both dogs at LA LVNE card,have the same colour ? /So not different as usual ?
It is only a matter of the printer work of 1960 ?
Do you know another deck with the same pattern ?
3-The playing card version is older than that we know ?
If we accepted that Tarot came to France at 1499 and began as a Tarot game so ...
-We accepted till now that Noblet (1650) is the older ancestor.
What happened in the middle ?
When began the historical playing card version ?
Are two differents Tarot de Marseille currents ?

Hello Miguel,

Why same color for "dogs": I don't know yet.
Usely "dogs" are from different colors as far I know.
But to be fully exact on this point, I should have already printed my full collection (60 decks) because it take time by checking card by card.
I need time to achieve this task. Be patient.

Between 1499 and 1650 what happened: Good question. Up to now we don't know because we have no traces, no Tarot decks.
But before Eiffel Tower there was only normal streets and houses in his emplacement.
There is always "something" before something.
And even before Big Bang in Univers there was something no ??
Sorry but I also don't know (Yet...... )

When began the historical playing card version ?
I don't remenber: I should check my documentation but I am so busy with other tasks.

Are two differents Tarot de Marseille currents ?
As I said if you use a French pattern Tarot (figures divided by the middle so) you loose a lot of informations.
Some people are able to read in Tarot or playing cards or ink spots or Crystal bowl. They are only medias for mediums.

Salute,

Yves