Between Majors and Minors:

1-One card unnumbered : LE MAT // One card unnamed: XIII
2-So we have 1 + 21 so a pair.
3-Suits: A suit unnumbered :DENIERS(plural) / So 1 + 2 (EPEE,BATON.COUPE all singular)
4-With regard to XIII that s make a somewhat two pair: I to XII and XIIII to XX so 12
XXI as a final stage.
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: Coincidences.

1-Another crossed relation between majors and minors: EPEE and the Mandorla of XXI.
2-Other may be the BATON with a relation with the wand of I and XXI
3-Has the COUPE a relation or connection in it s form with the pregnant REYNE DE EPEE as I see ?
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: Coincidences.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting Eugim.

Of course we are going to notice visual similarities between various cards.

Apart from the implements presented as suits (batons, cups, deniers and swords), these or similar depictions are going to recur in trumps. So Justice holds a sword, temperance cups, the Chariot and Bateleur batons, etc.

Also, once we observe general form, these are going to have their reflection in other cards. The 'mandorla' formed from the usage of curved swords (whether as sabres or scimitars) will find its reflection in elliptical detail.

With the pips, ALL are 'numbered' by the design itself (and some in addition add Roman numerals) - various decks have different preferences as to which pips (if any) have these Roman additions, usually the more visually complex adding the numerals over the visually simple.

This does not mean that these are not useful additions to use and allow to inform a narrative (in other words, they can be quite useful when doing a reading). If the comment reflects this, then great.

If, however, you are suggesting that the various detailed connections that the mind can make by observing similarities was intended as connected detail of design, then I would suggest that this is unlikely.

Re: Coincidences.

Hello JMD...
1-At the times when the first Tarot de Marseille were used for a game most of the people were illiterate.
They can t count the numbers of batons for example.So I think they had a visual memory.
2-So why thus deniers are unnumbered.For what ?
3-We know pips were first,then came the 22.
I m agree that there were no connection between the 56 and the 22 in Italians decks,but once entered in France the iconography of the 22 were altered.Just for me of course. (Temperance as an example )
4-Using the Italian Tarot Game concept about "triumph",a threesome left me inquiring a lot ...
a-Temperance triumphed over Death : I m agree of course.
b-Devil triumphed over Temperance ? : I m not agree. (Isn t called XIIII as an Angel ? )
a-L Hermit triumph over Ivstice ?
b- La Lvne triumphed over Le Maison Dieux ?
6-If there is a couple may be the strongest where I m agree is La Force over La Rove de Fortvne if we assumed the last as a depiction of Destiny forces.

Till the next Rudolph...

The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: Coincidences.

1-With regard strictly to the coincidences I see between the 22 and the 56 I allways talking about as ever about Tarot de Marseille.
2-Recently a friend of mine sent to me some chapters of a "Wicked pack of Cards" of M. Dummett.
There I was surprised aside his irony and disdain aside his historical trade that no one can deny of course...
He pointed (page 28 ) " We cannot directly determine the intention underlying the invention of the Tarot pack,since we don t know who it s inventor was,and he has left no record of what was in his mind.We have therefore to deduce the answer from the appearance of the cards and the use subsequently made of them "
3-So sometimes JMD is seems as if your little son take the deck and mix it without any pattern and then when you try to order it you found strange coincidences (BTW my new deck Jean Noblet is in my hand allways,I will never accept that )
4-French Tarot de Marseille has crossed links for me between 22 and 56.
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: Coincidences.

-But within the 22 I see also many coincidences.

1-After XIII done her work,XIIII balance the new earth elements to fit a new renewed order.
2-He sent it as a result to XV LE DIABLE just for me the Matter who attached us here.
3-Then comes XVI the fire within us who claim to return to God so to the Sun.
As the Bible said " Ours God is a consumer Fire"
4-Then comes XVII LE STOILLE as you know,pouring into the water of Life the result of the above mentioned.As a result,as a conclusion.
5-But here comes XVIII...
How understand this progression ?
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

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