Lorredan wrote:

I think, you get romantic here. I assume, that Sforza was a realist.

Ha ! I admit it- in my defence I was raised with the unbelievable belief of saintly-ness of Christian figures- and wishfulness sneaks through sometimes. Sforza was not a realist as a mercenary- he knew how much the Popes changed their minds and how hard it was to get money out of Visconti......yet.....on and on he went.

What I really want to know is how come these cards (not the CharlesV1) called Visconti have different dates of origin apparently. Is it just because of their artwork? Why not a specific plan and execution by different artist studios within the same year?
I have not seen a convincing argument yet to date them one before the other- like the Brera is the oldest- no the Cary Yale is the oldest- etc. Why not consider the work spread around and the artwork would vary. So there are different coins- well if master naibi decks were commonplace, the one used as an example might have belonged to Visconti. So you believe the Cary-Yale is the oldest because of Petrarch influence?
If you or anyone can give me a concrete reason why these cards are so spread out yearwise- I would just appreciate that so much.
I do believe in the Petrarch outburst- but I would have to believe in the spread of years for all the catagory Visconti.
My thread was the point of the cards been an Indulgence set really, or at least decks that were exempt because of that aspect.

~Lorredan

The general agreement seems to be, that Cary-Yale Tarocchi and Brera Brambilla are "before 1447" (so before the death of Filippo Maria Visconti ) and the PMB "after 1450", so after Sforza was successful in Milan.

I personally could imagine, that the Cary-Yale Tarocchi is a deck made for Bianca Maria Visconti and Francesco Sforza in 1441. In my opinion this sequence makes sense.

1. Before September 1440 (Giusto-Giusti document) the "Trionfi deck" idea is born in Florence.
2. a "Trionfi deck" is discussed and prepared at 1.1.1441 in Ferrara ... for Bianca Maria Visconti
3. Cary-Yale deck produced in Milan or Cremona for the wedding at October 1441
4. Leonello commissions 4 decks for his use after becoming sinore of Ferrara ... Jan/Feb 1442
5. A relative cheap deck (the first cheap deck) is bought in Ferrara ... July 1442.

In my opinion the scene on the Fama cards reflects a "famous war story" between Piccinino and Sforza. As the relationship Piccinino and Sforza was a central theme at the wedding, this would make sense, too.

I could imagine, that the unusual scene "council in Florence 1439" caused the phenomenon "event decks called Trionfi decks" as a part of the general festivities. Perhaps this repeated in 1440 with celebrations for the victory in battle of Anghiari, which would explain the involvement of Giusto Giusti.

Trionfi culture was part of Byzantine history, less part of European culture. 700 Byzantine persons in Florence 1439 somehow with security also talked about earlier Byzantine culture, so possibly also about the festivities. This naturally would have triggered the Italian mind to think about Petrarca's Trionfi poem, but also about general triumphal celebrations. As there were celebrations in Florence, there were naturally also discussions between participating Western and Eastern scholars.
Biondo Biondi's work in the 1450's about the right way for a triumpal celebration and the decoration of the Medci chapel with reference to the Byzanz delegation 20 years before somehow is evidence, that there was something of this kind before during the council.