Re: The Marriage Contract

21
Here is a site that shows the Adimari Panel (Not on a marriage chest) from Florence.
If you look on the far left of the painting you will see the very large marriage bowl (not a birthing bowl) carried out by servants? Big wedding- big Bowl. It may have had symbols on it- or Coat of Arms or even a shoe with a rope :ymsmug:

http://www.turismo.intoscana.it/allthin ... dimari.jpg

~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: The Marriage Contract

23
Image

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketc ... -book.html

The Sforziad is recently discussed in context of this painting.

Also here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-20121424.html
http://www.3pipe.net/2011/07/enhancing- ... -case.html

... :-) ... if anybody mentions Leonardo, a lot of eyes get dollar notes in them. As if the picture would become better, at it is, if Leonardo painted it ... :-)

**********

Do you have a picture of the wild man in the Sforziad?
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The Marriage Contract

24
Interestingly the above mentioned research offers some details, how the Sforziad texts have or might have wandered:


http://www.lumiere-technology.com/discoveries2.html

They offer another pdf:
http://www.lumiere-technology.com/news/ ... ealogy.pdf

Our specific interest might be the travel of the "green" version, which got to Warsaw. First it seems, that it went to Paris (1500), robbed by Francis. Then it went to Warsaw.
I would assume, that those cards at Kaplan I, page 109 (also in Warsaw), which are assumed to have been in the same deck as this one:

Image


... and another, which was sold at Christie a few years ago ...

Image


... have the same or a similar story. Bona Sforza was married to the Polish throne (1518).

**************

In their hypotheses [in the additional pdf] they come to this conclusion:

Image


This are the harmless "wild men" and again they shall be by "Leonardo".
The Letters G. Z. do refer to Galeazzo [Sanseverino].
The two wodewose refer to the wild men costumes
Leonardo designed in 1491 in the palace of
Galeazzo di Sanseverino for a tournament which
Sanseverino won.
Galeazzo di Sanseverino, intended recipient of the
book, and his bride, Ludovico's illegitimate daughter
to celebrate their wedding 1496.

Leonardo da Vinci lived in his house for a while and
have make the project to an equestrian statue in is
honor.
Further there are calculations like:
... confiscated during French invasion, when Sanseverino was briefly imprisoned by French, along with Il Moro. Several possibilities among French invaders known to have possessed
books stolen from Sforza.
a) Cardinal Georges d'Amboise (1460-1510) At his Chateau de Gaillon : Oraison de la reduction de Milan; Aquinas' On Kingship once belonging to Ludovico Il Moro
b)Geoffroy Carles (C.1460-1516) Two Sforza owned books among nine of Italian origin: Aquinas On Kingship (later to Amboise), and Justin, Epitome historiarum Pompeii Trogi, once owned by Francesco Sforza
c)Florimond Robertet (1460-1527) Most likely of these three. Owned a collection of Sforza related documents compiled by Cicco Simonetta (d.1480). Patron of Leonardo da Vinci ("our dear and well loved...."). Commisioned 'Madonna of Yarnwinder'.Contents of his library are unknown. An inventory made by his widow in 1532 is lost. A mid-17th century reconstruction of that inventory for his great grandson Charles de Restaing is a partial fabrication by Henri Chesneau.
Subsequent: Wedding gift by French crown to King Sigismund I of Poland for his nuptials with Bona Sforza, cousin of Francis I through house of Savoy, at a time (1518) when Francis was trying to forge a military alliance with Poland against the Turks, and soliciting Sigismund's vote for him
in the upcoming election of the Holy Roman Emperor. Polish royal collection to Jan Zamoyski, and ultimately the Polish National Library in Warsaw. # # # # # # # # # 13 Apr. 2011 - David Wright
I don't know ... it looks a little bit "wild constructed". And the wild men don't look like "from Leonardo".
Last edited by Huck on 27 May 2012, 07:12, edited 1 time in total.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The Marriage Contract

25
yes Huck I have a picture supposedly from the original Sforziad. I am conflicted on the authenticity.
I was under the impression that Francesco Filelfo's Heroic verse (apparently bad) was in Latin and it was not illuminated. It is in a book called "Italian Renaissance Illuminations" and the little corner of script you can see looks like Italian to me. Anyway the figure is tiny- but it looks like Pan in rags- instead of Harp has Club/cudgel- not hairy- does not have tail or cloven hoof- has hair like madwoman. The clothes look like clasical toga in tatters. It is not of the quality of the illuminations of Lodivico's later Sforziad. So I do not know really.
As if the picture would become better, at it is, if Leonardo painted it...
My sentiments exactly- but then I do not own it.

Now I have a question.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Filelfo had the Visconti cards tacked around his study as he apparently had finished his 1st book on the epic by 1451? I have not been able to find anything other in English than that he started with "Jove and his Lightening"
Basino Busini of Parma had finished his epic Poem (Hesperis) for Malatesta at the same time.
I believe Filelfo was in Milan at the time when Malatesta asked for a deck in 1440.
With his high living one would wonder if he bought Mamluk cards for gambling with him from his employment in Venice and Constantinople etc. I keep thinking he is some sort of gateway into Tarot.
~Lorredan

P.s Filelfo is a cousin of Leonardo.
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: The Marriage Contract

26
It was three or four years ago I asked if it was possible that the Visconti cards were "public relations" as if Coke Cola might sponser a deck today for advertising.
Looks like Lodvico Sforza had the same idea with his Sforziad as was the original one to get Francesco recognised.
The Marriage cards seem to be this constant that ties it all together. Apparently there were 400 copies and considerable amount were used as diplomatic gifts- it would seem. Maybe Tarot decks went along with them.
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: The Marriage Contract

27
Lorredan wrote:P.s Filelfo is a cousin of Leonardo.
Leonado da Vinci ????? ... very unlikely. Filelfo was 54 years older than Leonardo. Leonardo was born near Florence, Filelfo in Tolentino near Ancona.
Wikipedia states: "He is believed to be a third cousin of Leonardo Da Vinci." "It is believed" is different to "it is" and "third cousins" are something different as "cousins". Well, if you have extreme familiary relationships like me, you can have astonishing much uncles and aunts of second degree. From my father alone I counted once 64 with 9 survivng children from one side (23 uncles and aunts) and 9 from the other in the grandparent families (41) - both from the period c. 1890, when the wave of European overpopulation was at its height.
This naturally makes a lot of cousins 2nd degree. If you go one step further to 3rd degree you easily might have a greater village population ... :-) ... all cousins. Reality is: you don't know these persons usually.
Naturally, if you've a smaller family configuration, this is a big difference. But Filelfo himself had 3 wives and a myriad of own children and a further myriad of grandchildren, and likely not the time to look after 3rd degree 54-years-younger cousins. Perhaps Leonardo knew about the relationship, cause a famous relative like Filelfo naturally captured some attention of the younger.
yes Huck I have a picture supposedly from the original Sforziad. I am conflicted on the authenticity.
I was under the impression that Francesco Filelfo's Heroic verse (apparently bad) was in Latin and it was not illuminated. It is in a book called "Italian Renaissance Illuminations" and the little corner of script you can see looks like Italian to me. Anyway the figure is tiny- but it looks like Pan in rags- instead of Harp has Club/cudgel- not hairy- does not have tail or cloven hoof- has hair like madwoman. The clothes look like clasical toga in tatters. It is not of the quality of the illuminations of Lodivico's later Sforziad. So I do not know really.
As if the picture would become better, at it is, if Leonardo painted it...
My sentiments exactly- but then I do not own it.

Now I have a question.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Filelfo had the Visconti cards tacked around his study as he apparently had finished his 1st book on the epic by 1451? I have not been able to find anything other in English than that he started with "Jove and his Lightening"
Basino Busini of Parma had finished his epic Poem (Hesperis) for Malatesta at the same time.
I believe Filelfo was in Milan at the time when Malatesta asked for a deck in 1440.
With his high living one would wonder if he bought Mamluk cards for gambling with him from his employment in Venice and Constantinople etc. I keep thinking he is some sort of gateway into Tarot.
~Lorredan
We made a lot about Filelfo in the Plethon-thread ...
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=160976
... and it is completely hopeless to bite with the researcher teeth in questions like "who made the tackholes". It's not so, that only the Visconti-Sforza cards had tackholes. Perhaps the tackholes were used in the production process.
Filelfo was 1440 more in Bologna. See Plethon thread. The colorful Mamluk cards are from late 15th century. And the Ottomans hadn't conquered Constantinople.
Filelfo wrote about Petrarca, that's probable of some more relevance, but he started this relatively late, around 1444.

I personally see not the one and only gateway to Tarot as Michael and Ross search it, I see many gateways. Filelfo took a position in the development of the Trionfi poem reception. And the Trionfi poem is naturally an important point for the early development of the Trionfi cards. Sforziad graphic of the 1490s is likely "too late".

Generally we have a lot to learn through the recent development:
http://trionfi.com/franco-pratesi
The number of early documents is increased by more than 100% in the last half year. The focus has shifted from Milan/Ferrara to Florence.

We've now the first Trionfi note in Florence, short after the battle of Anghiari ... which was a Florentine "Triumph".
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The Marriage Contract

28
Lorredan wrote:It was three or four years ago I asked if it was possible that the Visconti cards were "public relations" as if Coke Cola might sponser a deck today for advertising.
Looks like Lodvico Sforza had the same idea with his Sforziad as was the original one to get Francesco recognised.
The Marriage cards seem to be this constant that ties it all together. Apparently there were 400 copies and considerable amount were used as diplomatic gifts- it would seem. Maybe Tarot decks went along with them.
How do you come to 400 copies? Of the Sforziad? Of the decks?
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The Marriage Contract

29
Sorry Huck, I was not clear...Lodivco Sforza had 400 Sforziad printed apparently. Some were special and illuminated and had specific symbols or Motifs of those who were going to get the Books in Vellum.

Now you said this.,,
The new data, that we have from Florence, confirms, that in the 1440s Trionfi cards were rare. In the 1450s we've a larger public, but still its only for persons with some money.. Around 1463/64 we've signs of "real mass production" ,... which doesn't exclude, that very expensive personal Trionfi cards still were produced.

The festival book of 1475 (Camilla Aragon married Costanzo Sforza) was very "personal" (but had similarity to Trionfi cards), and generally real great Trionfi actions always had individuality ... there was no "standard". Standards developed from the "cheap market" and from the practical playing tables and from the woodcut producers.
I understand this is where you will get the most information from- the mass market.
I am most enamoured with those handpainted decks like the Visconti. I think I am like this because I collected 'Holy Pictures' from early in my childhood. I loved all the 'bling' of Catholic Saints and embellished Cathedrals etc.
So naturally I like these handpainted personal or Marriage decks.
What I cannot understand is this...which came first?
Did the Visconti adapt a set of images from a card game already in existence. (I am not talking about the suits)
or did the Visconti Decks form the standard from which all the mass market Tarrochi came from?
Does anyone have what is now a majority view?
Oh and by the way I did not mean I was concentrating on the tack holes- I meant did Filelfo use the cards to write his Sforzaid Epic.
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: The Marriage Contract

30
Lorredan wrote:Sorry Huck, I was not clear...Lodivco Sforza had 400 Sforziad printed apparently. Some were special and illuminated and had specific symbols or Motifs of those who were going to get the Books in Vellum.
Hm ... I see here a note, that the Sforziad was never printed:
http://books.google.de/books?id=ok8nG7L ... de&f=false
I searched between the Wiegendrucke and found nothing.
I searched worldcat and found no note.
Now you said this.,,
The new data, that we have from Florence, confirms, that in the 1440s Trionfi cards were rare. In the 1450s we've a larger public, but still its only for persons with some money.. Around 1463/64 we've signs of "real mass production" ,... which doesn't exclude, that very expensive personal Trionfi cards still were produced.

The festival book of 1475 (Camilla Aragon married Costanzo Sforza) was very "personal" (but had similarity to Trionfi cards), and generally real great Trionfi actions always had individuality ... there was no "standard". Standards developed from the "cheap market" and from the practical playing tables and from the woodcut producers.
I understand this is where you will get the most information from- the mass market.
Not necessarily. But if any direct and early Trionfi card information appears and it is solid, you have to know it, if you wish to discuss the origin.
The state 1/2 year ago had been very early notes from Milan and Ferrara, and start of mass production was not defined with a suspicion "start in 1477". Florence participated since 1450, but not with much notes.
Now it is: Very early notes from Milan and Ferratra AND Florence. Mass production at least since 1464. More notes from Florence, even more than from Ferrara.

This is a rather dramatic change.
I am most enamoured with those handpainted decks like the Visconti. I think I am like this because I collected 'Holy Pictures' from early in my childhood. I loved all the 'bling' of Catholic Saints and embellished Cathedrals etc.
So naturally I like these handpainted personal or Marriage decks.
What I cannot understand is this...which came first?
Did the Visconti adapt a set of images from a card game already in existence. (I am not talking about the suits)
or did the Visconti Decks form the standard from which all the mass market Tarrochi came from?
Does anyone have what is now a majority view?
Oh and by the way I did not mean I was concentrating on the tack holes- I meant did Filelfo use the cards to write his Sforzaid Epic.
I don't know the Sforziad, and I've no idea, why do you think, that it is related to the Trionfi cards. Two decorative wild men of c. 1490-95 can't have influenced the development of c. 1450. Is there any schematic key in the work, something like 14, 16 or 22 chapters?

Filarete proposed an ideal city, which was structured in 16 elements ... like a compass. Something like this indicates, that somebody was interested in a structure with 16 elements.

Image


Filelfo's early commissioner was Filippo Maria Visconti. Later he was on the pay-list of Francesco Sforza. So he wrote the Sforziade ... this isn't so unusual. A Florentine writer would write a Florence history, and a Milanese or Sforza history shouldn't be surprising for Filelfo.

Why do you think, that the Sforziade is relevant?

Image

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/da-vi ... 259-6.html

The London Sforziade ... 5 star buttons, each with 16 ends, similar to Sforzinda.
Last edited by Huck on 28 May 2012, 01:24, edited 1 time in total.
Huck
http://trionfi.com