LA PAPESSE

[EUGIM]

1-If there is around a card that always "shocked" me with regard to Tarot de Marseille as a "sequence" point of view was LA PAPESSE.
2-Its the first card after I and one can expect that she will follow the sequence but not my friend...
She is firmly "placed" toward LE BATELEVR ...
a-LA PAPESSE ?
b-Opened a book to him ? / Which kind of book ?
c-Aside meanings Mealing Robert that already broke all speculations about many too many things...
5-So we have a pair here.
6-That s leave " free" III and IIII for marriage. Wow !
- V ? // So he need not a "consort" ¿agree ? (Please send to him a baby of 20 NOW ! )
7-So place you where I card is //"You" are LE BATELEVR...
You my friend are the only person on the entirely deck who "SEE" LA PAPESSE so who see the "opened" book
8-Isn t LA PAPESSE my Friend and you know she is the secret knowledge that never follow the "Sequence of history as Mom and Dad told to us "

[Lorredan]

Hi Eugim- It seems you are very stuck on the direction the Papesse regards us. Well in the Visconti, she looks the other way to the Noblet for instance. In the Noblet she appears to have a mask on...a death mask Maybe???
From occult times (1700 on) she is thought maybe to be Isis/ the sanctuary of Knowledge/ The high priestess/ for example.
Prior to that time it is thought she maybe Mary- the first Tabernacle. This is very clear in the Noblet, with the Baldachino with an illusion to a dove behind her. When I was at school there was a very usual drawing of her as 'Mother Church' with her book of canon law. In lots of ways she looks like Mary Magdalene and is very similar to reliquaries held in French Churches like Vezelay (even with blonde hair lol)....
So I take it that you think Tarot was occult before the 1700s?? Maybe I think she is Juno masked for a Christian world.
I think she is Virginal and not the Bateleur's mate. His magic is external and maybe hers is internal? Maybe that is derision she regards him with?
Please tell me why you think the regard is so important?
~Lorredan

[EUGIM]

Hi Lorredan and nice to see you again here !!!

1-Well the simple reason for that is LA PAPESSE really begin the whole card sequence and begin that placed seeing toward LE BATELEVR.
So not ahead toward III card.
2-With regard to her meaning I see her as a depiction of ours innermost knowledge that comes form ours Souls.
Contrary to Visconti deck and Vieville alsoshe show his book widely opened.
She has no problem about this because we can t be able to read it without her help as an agent of ours Souls..
Her system is based on a deepest intuition.
3-She is facing LE BATELEVR not as a earthly couple by itself but yes as an ours guiding one.
LE BATELEVR as the book of her isn t "explained"he only do his "work"so we must "read" it.
4-I think my firend Lorredan that her book has the lesson of LE BATELEVR work "write" to learn through his feminine (Soul agent) guide.

Cheers !!!

eugim

[Lorredan]

Well I guess I will dicipher!
Without numbers on the deck you believe that La Papesse is first card in the deck/leads the sequence?
So it would go...La Papesse/ Le Bateleur/Empress...etc etc.
So you see her as occult? Not as sequential trump?
Her book is mostly open un -like a say a scroll?
Her meaning is like Waite as Intuition rather than Heirachy (as in states of Man)?
His work (what we must do) is in the book and we have to find out what is in the book by our actions (through Intuition)??
The work of a man and a woman is to integrate their feminine and masculine sides?
I am not sure, but this sounds very occult rather than historic Tarot- not that I have any problem with that- but I have wanted to get to what you are trying to say. Others seem to get it Eugim- but I am puzzled
~Lorredan~

[EUGIM]

Lorredan surely I expressed wrong what i want to mean.
The sequence is as it is.
So Le Batelever / La Papesse and so on.
I mean La Papesse is the first that after Le Batelevr really begin to "roll" on the sequence and instead to be placed ahead she is placed seeing toward Le Batelevr card.
Any occultism here.Just I m watching the cards.

See you later...