Re: A strange belt

22
cadla wrote:I notice Huck is ignoring me.

You're safer that way Huck, I might subject you to my opinion on the Trojan War if you aren't careful.
You think of that animal farm with Ulysses as fox and Penelope as Duck ? Beware, maybe Morgante would have done a job there, collecting Greek and Trojan helmets like Obelix did with the Romans.

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Obelix and Asterix, modern variant of Orlando with Morgante

But what would you think about a little bit about 12th century feminism?

King Arthur stories developed 12th century ... well, there was something before, but not much. King Arthur became "good", sister Morgana "bad", we all know that ... a sort of center of these productions, somehow comparable to modern Hollywood, had been Queen Eleanore's Aquitaine, with Eleanore as chief of the literary salon. Eleanore, this woman, which first married a French king and then an English king and caused on the long run 100 years of war between France and England, finally finished in the favor of France in 1453.

Think logical ... a Queen is the admired "commissioner" and Arthur becomes good and Morgana bad? Isn't that a contradiction?

Morgana had two sisters ... so tells the story:

Morgana, Elaine and Morgause

El-aine ... El-eanore
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: A strange belt

26
Me- I doubt, didn't once, do now. Saw a theatrical belt for Corpus Christi Fool (didn't think they fooled around on Corpus Christi) He kept dropping his pants to the delight of the kids, and stealing their Gelato cones. It was made of horse chestnuts- it took me ages to remember where I had seen one before.
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: A strange belt

27
Lorredan wrote:Me- I doubt, didn't once, do now. Saw a theatrical belt for Corpus Christi Fool (didn't think they fooled around on Corpus Christi) He kept dropping his pants to the delight of the kids, and stealing their Gelato cones. It was made of horse chestnuts- it took me ages to remember where I had seen one before.
But bells are suits in Switzerland and Germany, and likely already in 15th century ... though I don't find one for the moment.
Occasionally they are associated to Fools on cards, so by Flötner c. 1540. Actually I've read somewhere, that these small bells were used already in 14th century, also by fools ... but insecure memory in this point.

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Fool with bells begin 15th century
http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/results.asp?image=006990

Fool with bells at the cap 1350
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http://utu.morganlibrary.org/medren/sin ... A000110637

Fool with bells c. 1430
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here it seems obvious from the painting: bells
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: A strange belt

28
That last illumination with the obvious bell on the hat- look to the margin and they have painted Horse chestnuts as a floral. The point I was making was that if you strung the bells to together they would not tinkle or ring
http://www.virtue.to/articles/bells.html
I think there is a strong connection with Fools and Horse chestnuts.
It is hard to know how accurate a costume for a fool today is like the fool of the 15th Century.
Bells are not strung in a line like beads.
~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: A strange belt

30
I agree it was a sweeping statement.
Let's see if I can make the connection without interminably long lists of quotes.
In Italy the population before wheat and potatoes used Chestnuts as flour- in fact Polenta was made from this flour. It is only now we make it from Wheat flour. It did not rise like wheat flour and communion was made from from it- the Bread of Life, as was pasta. It is also Jupiter's tree (some say Oak, some say Walnut- but Jupiter's tree is a nut tree- all same family)
Wedding cakes are made from Chestnut Flour.; celebration of the chaste bride.
When Jupiter ousted Momus from Mount Olympus- he had with him a fool's head made from Horse Chestnut wood- which the nuts were used as Horse fodder- and in times of famine Horse Chestnut flour was mixed with other cereal for the peasants- in Italy it was said not even the pigs would eat Horse chestnut flour- but the peasants could.The Italians call it Castanea because it grows in pairs like testicles and when it throws the nuts it looks like castration. It has a long association with chastity as well. A Horse Chestnut is like Fool's Gold- it looks like a chestnut - but is not the Bread of Life. It was used to cure Horses of flatulence and if you were careful with the preparation it made you pee copiously and got rid of what might today be called 'water on the brain'
It was a fool's food, given by Jupiter to Momus. Food for Donkeys who are not as smart as pigs. So as usual, you might see a Fool with a Chestnut wood wand- a parody of the Kings Scepter- the Pope's Scepter to poke fun at either in a very rude way. It was commonly used(Nuts) to cure hemorrhoids when boiled and prepared properly and was also used as fake bells to mimic the fashion of the day- but it's main fun was the fake flour aspect and the Holy Eurcharist and rude ribald jokes about body bits.
~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts