Re: The Tablet of Cebes

#11
Note:
I am always happy to host images on this server if anyone wants to share, just let me know; and of course, we have the attachment option.
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: The Tablet of Cebes

#12
marco wrote:This game by Mitelli is great!
Straight from Ripa to the gameboard. Amazing :)

Marco
Agreed: amazing. Worthy of further exploration. Mitelli, of course, is several hundred years too late. How far back can we trace this type of game?
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: The Tablet of Cebes

#13
Pen wrote: Re. tarot/minchiate, I've often wondered if we can be 100% sure regarding which came first, and thought this post might prompt some strong opinions. :-?
I think the most common argument against minchiate is that the "additional" cards were added as a single group. The feeling is that someone looked at tarot, decided what cards could be added - missing virtue, elements, astrology; and then added them en masse to the tarot at the most logical spot, next to the other virtues. All of the additional cards remain in a group rather than mixed in to the rest of the deck.

It's harder, I think, to argue that someone had the entire minchiate, and then decided to remove a block of cards en masse, and decided to do it by taking ONE virtue and leaving three.

So this gives the sense of "repair" occurring, that someone felt that the tarot was incomplete with regard to the virtues, and also decided to add the other cards (for whatever reason), perhaps to make the deck a more complete view of the universe, (or perhaps just to show that in Florence, even the game of tarot is GRANDER!).
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: The Tablet of Cebes

#14
mmfilesi wrote:Thanks friend :) !

I explain the Stairway [to Heaven] by Callimacus in:

http://www.mmfilesi.com/comentarios.php ... og=07golem

More images:

http://www.mmfilesi.com/comentarios.php ... og=07golem

I think in Callimacus are the root of the Dance of Death.

********
In Mitelli we have Tarot and game of Gosip:

http://www.mmfilesi.com/comentarios.php ... iblogptero
I think this is very interesting, but I need to read more about it. Regarding the ladder, are we talking about two separate things?

I've seen the cathedral at Bath with the fabulous ladders (there's two sides, one with angels ascending, one with angels descending):




The architecture on the cathedral is telling the story of the Dream of Jacob, and what is commonly called "Jacob's Ladder" where there are two ladders leading to heaven with angels ascending and descending. The key word here is "angel". When talking about this ladder to heaven, it's only angels depicted, as shown is a couple of the images you posted Marcos.

Now, the other ladder is more interesting because while the idea remains, the substance has changed, and now we are seeing mortals trying to reach heaven. This is much more in keeping with the ideas discussed in this thread and tarot in general. How far back can we trace this idea? How common is it? Where does it show up in medieval art and literature?
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: The Tablet of Cebes

#15
robert wrote: Now, the other ladder is more interesting because while the idea remains, the substance has changed, and now we are seeing mortals trying to reach heaven. This is much more in keeping with the ideas discussed in this thread and tarot in general. How far back can we trace this idea? How common is it? Where does it show up in medieval art and literature?
The theme of celestial ascent is ancient - Adapa flies to heaven, only to be denied the elixir of immorality by a double-cross;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adapa

Paul goes to "the third heaven" and has a vision (2 Corinthians 12:2-4 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Heaven ), for instance.

But the Christian medieval version, a detailed, staged ascent, seems to derive from a combination of neo-Platonic theurgy, transmitted through writers like Pseudo-Dionysius, and the story of Mohammed's ascent, the "Night Vision" or Mi'raj (the origin of our word mirage)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra_and_Mi%27raj

This started coming into Latin in the late (middle?) 13th century, if I remember correctly, through the Latin translations of Avicenna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna
especially his commentary on Aristotle.

It resulted in quasi-heterodox thinking like these diagrams, from a 13th century book formerly in a monastic library, which then ended up in the Visconti library, and now resides in Paris -

Image



http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/visc ... scent1.jpg


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/visc ... scent2.jpg
Image

Re: The Tablet of Cebes

#16
robert wrote:
Pen wrote: Re. tarot/minchiate, I've often wondered if we can be 100% sure regarding which came first, and thought this post might prompt some strong opinions. :-?
I think the most common argument against minchiate is that the "additional" cards were added as a single group. The feeling is that someone looked at tarot, decided what cards could be added - missing virtue, elements, astrology; and then added them en masse to the tarot at the most logical spot, next to the other virtues. All of the additional cards remain in a group rather than mixed in to the rest of the deck.

It's harder, I think, to argue that someone had the entire minchiate, and then decided to remove a block of cards en masse, and decided to do it by taking ONE virtue and leaving three.

So this gives the sense of "repair" occurring, that someone felt that the tarot was incomplete with regard to the virtues, and also decided to add the other cards (for whatever reason), perhaps to make the deck a more complete view of the universe, (or perhaps just to show that in Florence, even the game of tarot is GRANDER!).
Thanks Robert, I see the logic in that. I laid the Minchiate Fiorentine Etruria out on the table this afternoon, divided the cards into groups and made a list. It's interesting that the Sun, Moon, Star, Judgement and the World cards are not numbered. Something elusive bothers me about the minchiate and I don't know what it is, but I'm sure there are threads and places where I can investigate further.

There's an interesting thread about the Minchiate here.

Pen
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

Re: The Tablet of Cebes

#17
Now, the other ladder is more interesting because while the idea remains, the substance has changed, and now we are seeing mortals trying to reach heaven. This is much more in keeping with the ideas discussed in this thread and tarot in general. How far back can we trace this idea? How common is it? Where does it show up in medieval art and literature?
a) The "Stairway to Paradise", is based on a passage from Genesis in which Jacob has a vision of a ladder leading to the door of heaven. (Génesis, 28).

b) In the seventh century, Callímaco was inspired in Jacob's ladder for write her ladder.

http://multimedios.org/docs/d000162/ (In spanish)

c) Herrad von Landsberg (c. 1130 – 1195), abbess of the Abbey of Hohenburg, is an example of the survival of the ladder of Callimachus:
07_escalera1.jpg
07_escalera1.jpg (123.83 KiB) Viewed 2744 times
http://www.mmfilesi.com/comentarios.php ... og=07golem

d) The idea is very similar to the dance of death. All fall, except those who really have a godly life (according to the criteria of a friar).
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)

Re: The Tablet of Cebes

#19
Marco, you're a (*)

It'd be fun to print an enlarged image to colour, mount on cardboard and play on. The counters could be Sun, Moon, Star, and perhaps a lucky little Fool.

Interesting that 'Happiness' is the cache of money at the end of the game...

Pen
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

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