Fascinating discussion - so much to discover.

Just to return to the missale for a moment though, did anyone else notice the long headings under the months? To the left of each is an appropriate biblical illustration, to the right a rural scene with the astrological sign appearing in a gap in the clouds. Some are quite difficult to make out, but Scorpio (below) is one of the better ones.

https://imgur.com/1lLSOBL

Pen

Hi marco!

You asked....

I would like to know more of what makes you think that representing Christ on a card would have been a problem, while representing Saint John would have been OK. This is not clear to me. I do not have particular opinions about what would have been seen as blasphemous, but I think that Christian images would have been common also in everyday objects.

It is a big subject and especially in the Renaissance. It concerns Sacer Locus. The very worst Sacrilege was against Holy things in Holy places (example would be peeing in the church quite common at the time- that is where the body of Christ was as the Eucharist) The second very grave Sacrilege/Blasphemy was Holy images in and on non sacred places.
Before the Renaissance it was Sacrilegious and Blasphemous to depict God in Art and you would often see a disembodied hand or a dove rather than a human-like image. It was not common at all to have Christ on everyday objects. It also showed a lacking of piety or respect for the sacred. It then became a debate on whether Christ/Jesus on non sacred items was against the second commandment and also doing so, implicitly promoted the ancient heresy of Nestorius who separated the two natures of Christ--the human from the divine.
That's it briefly. You could have a sacred image over your doorway as a protective spirit in a small sense- but the reformation soon dealt to that as well.
So no Jesus/Christ on cups and saucers or cards

~Lorredan

Hello Lorredan,
thank you for the additional information!

My personal opinion is that the Sacer Locus is not so relevant: the fact that peeing in church was Sacrilegious seems to me quite unrelated from the possibility of representing sacred images on everyday objects. Of course, one would not represent a sacred image on a urinal, but I think that saucers of cards can still be considered. I am aware of the fact that sacred images have had a controversial history in Christianity, as described in your post. What I am trying to understand is what was the situation in medieval / renaissance Italy. I will try to find a good database of pottery, which, as you suggest, seems to be a reasonable analogue for cards.

With a quick search, I have only found a few coins:
XV century, Venice
XIII century, Naples
XIII century, Milan

Marco

marco wrote: With a quick search, I have only found a few coins:
XV century, Venice
XIII century, Naples
XIII century, Milan

Marco

It was common for city coins to be imprinted with the image of their patron saint, such as St. John on Florins given as example in another thread. As patron the saint is representative of the 'City'.

SteveM wrote: It was common for city coins to be imprinted with the image of their patron saint, such as St. John on Florins given as example in another thread. As patron the saint is representative of the 'City'.

I agree. This accounts perfectly for the Milanese coin. The coin from Naples (annunciation) and the Venetian Ducat (resurrection) use religious images that are quite generic and not connected to a specific region. I think the ducat is particularly relevant in the context of World cards.


We have at least one example of a religious subject in tarot cards: the Visconti-Sfoza Judgement, referred to by Ross in a previous post, in which God the Father is represented.

I attach an image from a nuptial "cassone" (Florence, early XV century): the Petrarchian triumph of Eternity is represented by Christ. The image is small but it is possible to see that also the symbols of the evangelists are present. The cassone is described in this PDF document.

I could find a few pottery examples as well:
* Adoration of the Shepherds: XVI century dish
* Virgin Mary and Saints: XVII century tile (Ross has posted more tiles in previous posts)
* Saint John the Baptist as a child: Late XVI century fruit dish
* Saint Francis of Assisi: early XVI century bowl
* Cross, Saint Bernardino triagram and Virgin Mary monogram: 1750 ca This is a ceramic disc that, as suggested by Lorredan as a possible use of sacred images, was fixed above the entrance of the house in order to protect it.

My impression from these examples is that sacred images were rather common. Images of Jesus are also present in various objects (ceramic tiles, a coin, a nuptial cassone, a dish).

Marco

PS: Two more XVI century Italian dishes representing Christ (at the Metropolitan Museum):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/1 ... 345292902/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/1 ... 345292902/

Marco

About the possibility of representing Christ in everyday objects, I would like to add (to the coins, pottery and furniture already listed) the 1527 Fortune Book "Triompho di Fortuna" by Sigismondo Fanti. The author describes his book as a "most useful and playful work" (opera utilissima et iocosa).

mjhurst wrote: Consider the penultimate card, Judgment.

First, quite obviously, it doesn't show Judgment. It shows resurrection. On the surface, it appears to show the general resurrection, but that isn't quite the case. Only one of the three figures is actually rising from a tomb. Moreover, the other two figures are in poses of supplication facing the rising figure rather than the angel of resurrection. Clearly, the central figure is Christ, and the cross on the trumpet is the same cross usually shown on Christ's banner as he rises.

Staring at Christ's naked butt is not the normal iconography for the Risen Christ!

And yet there it is. This being the case, the woman is the Virgin and the bearded man is the Baptist -- the two intercessors, cf. Deesis -- as depicted in a thousand scenes of Resurrection to JUDGMENT!

I'm glad I was able to find this.

I've been working on a tarot card for a collaborative deck on another forum, and I chose Judgement as my card. The reason I chose it was because I was working with English parish church wall paintings for an essay at the time and I was focusing on Doom paintings and had taken a lot of photos. For the project I decided to try to rebuild the Tarot de Marseille Judgement card using pieces from the photos I had taken of Doom paintings. Having spent many hours working very closely with the art, I have to admit... I think you're probably right Michael, I think it is quite likely Jesus rising from the grave with Mary and John beside him. I remember when you brought this up thinking that it didn't really make sense, and that it must be the general resurrection that we are seeing here, but now I think you're probably right, it's an image of the risen Christ. I just couldn't stop thinking so as I was building my image that I was looking at Mary and John. So... I'm converted.

Cheers.

Hi robert!

Sorry for my ignorance, I am very interested in this. We know any Christian text which says Christ died and resurrected in the Judgement Day?

I only know a resurrection of Christ before the Judgement Day, as the Gospel of Nicodemus

mmfilesi wrote:Hi robert!

Sorry for my ignorance, I am very interested in this. We know any Christian text which says Christ died and resurrected in the Judgement Day?

I only know a resurrection of Christ before the Judgement Day, as the Gospel of Nicodemus

Well, let's be careful with the titles. I'm always dubious of the names of cards as I think sometimes they mislead us into seeing things that aren't really the topic. Titles and names came later, and remember that this card was often called simply "The Angel". I always believed that we were looking at a Judgement Day scene until I spent time working closely with the card, and with images of Judgement Day from medieval paintings, and I just got the feeling that I was seeing Mary and John, and then increasingly feeling that it was Christ rising. So.. what if Michael's suggestion is correct? So I agree with your suggestion, what if we are NOT looking at Judgement Day, but at The Resurrection of Christ?

Here for instance:
http://www.bible-art.info/Resurrection.htm

I would suggest the possibility that the "Judgement" card shows Christ Resurrected, and the "World" card shows Christ in Glory. Christ on both cards. This is going to be terribly popular.