Lorredan wrote:I find this odd for several reasons- although I agree that Tarot is a world of Fools/Tricksters/Villians etc.
Firstly at the time of Tarot's origins it was extremely unlawful to use sacred images in secular things like printed matter or secular images in sacred places- mostly in churches. People got around this by placing their images within supposedly sacred images- a subterfuge if you will. So you will see a patron posing as a saint for example. The Medici, to get their images into a chapel had to get a dispensation- and it was only in their private chapel. The exception was tomb decoration or cemetery decoration.You can see Roman Gods and Pagan images on tombstones, or a Patron on his horse inside a Church. So I find it odd that the image of Jesus or Christ Resurrected would appear on cards for game playing. The only excuse I could find would be that these images may have been appropriated from the printers floor- images perhaps initially going to used in another manner.
I'm not familiar enough with the history to be able to know the accuracy or your view, nor if there were exceptions. What I do know is that the four, haloed evangelists on the Tarot de Marseille World card should be a pretty strong indication that we are dealing with a Biblical figure. The similarities to Christ have always been apparent to me, but the usual argument against that was the nakedness of the figure. We're now seeing a growing collection of images that are similar to the one on the Tarot de Marseille, and I find it hard when considering the Vieville, Noblet and Dodal, and accepting the iconography, not to accept an image of Jesus Christ as the figure in the center... especially on the Vieville where the figure is haloed as well as the evangelists. Of course, if someone has an image of a more likely haloed figure surrounded by the four evangelists that is a better match, I am truly open to changing my mind (I do it all the time!).
Lorredan wrote:Secondly, although I have not made a thorough study at all- it seems that if the images were
posting.php?mode=quote&f=12&p=4445#blasphemous that would have been the main thrust of their censure by the Church. It seems as if the game playing as in Dicing , was the main concern. In the case of Dicing- it was usually the playing outside the church(bouncing the dice against the church walls for one) and amusement value on Holy Days that seemed to be the problem. It would seem that the Church would have come down hard on Blasphemy images used for gambling and the like. I am more inclined to believe that the World card in Tarot de Marseille is more likely a humanising of the Mappa Mundi- but that does not explain Judgement of course- which to me is an odd ball card.
~Lorredan
PS I have sent said tiny image to family to enlarge and email back to me- will post in due course. I am now convinced that the model for Tarot de Marseille like card Bateleur is based on the Tobacco Merchant or street seller. The Visconti especially the Pierpont Morgan Magician/Bateleur/Jugglerfor me is based on a story teller character about to write. The Jar could possibly a talc shaker to dry the ink. Maybe. Wish I knew for sure. It looks so like the young Sforza.
Yes, we also have to take the Judgement card into consideration, and its placement in the Tarot de Marseille sequence. We're talking about Judgement Day here, another Biblical reference, and Gabriel blowing his trumpet, aren't we?
I don't know why tarot cards would have religions figures on them; but to me, I'm increasingly convinced that the images were not satirical.
Don't we also have a Visconti card with God on it?
Maybe the cards were given a religious character to get past the church's concerns about playing with cards? Aren't there examples of tarot being
excluded from bans??
It's my impression that the Bagatto mean "a trifle", and that part of that idea is that he would be someone who would sell trivial things. When I see the Visconti bagatto, he has most of the iconography that we would identify as the tarot Magician. I suppose that maybe after tobacco arrived in the 1500s, perhaps the "bagatto" of the time would have started selling it as well as his other trinkets? If so, I can imagine how the Tarot de Marseille would have adapted some of that into the imagery, but I'm not sure we need that to get from the Visconti to the the Tarot de Marseille? Although, I think it is pretty cool if it did. It would explain why the Cary Sheet magician doesn't match the Tarot de Marseille, and it would also date both.. Cary Sheet before tobacco is introduced, Tarot de Marseille after. I'm just sort of surprised to think of the Tarot de Marseille as being that late, I would have thought it had been earlier!