Boobs, Bums and Two Dogs.

#1
Using the Noblet- because it always on my desk- (but use what you have)Just look at it visually- no numbers or titles.
You have 7 cards that are male.
You have 7 cards that are female.
You have 7 cards that are/have male and female.
You have 1 card with no human figure on it = The Moon
The Sirs of The deck Bateleur/Emperor/Pope/Chariot/Hermite/Hanged Man/Fool
The Madams are Papesse/Empress/Justice/Force/Temperance/Star/World
Combination cards Lovers/WOF/Death/Devil/Tower/Sun/Judgment (please excuse the mangling of the titles)
They seem to form natural Trinity visually and theologically
Bateleur/Papesse/Lovers
Emperor/Empress/WOF
Pope/Justice/Death
Chariot/Force/Devil
Hermit/Temperance/Tower
Hanged Man/Star/Sun
Fool/World/Judgment
Because of this I seem unable to assign elements to the Atouts.
Surprisingly if you put the Moon with the combination cards, making 8 cards you get
Male
Fire/Water= Sun
Fire/Earth = Devil
Air/Water = Tower
Air/Earth = Judgment
Female
Water/Fire= Moon
Water/Air= WOF
Earth/Fire = Lovers
Earth/Air = Death
I would be happier if the Tower was called LE maison Diev
Now what I want to know is- Is this far too artificial? Slightly wrong? Way Wrong?
~Lorredan~
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: Boobs, Bums and Two Dogs.

#2
Lorredan wrote: ...Because of this I seem unable to assign elements to the Atouts.
Surprisingly if you put the Moon with the combination cards, making 8 cards you get
Male
Fire/Water= Sun
Fire/Earth = Devil
Air/Water = Tower
Air/Earth = Judgment
Female
Water/Fire= Moon
Water/Air= WOF
Earth/Fire = Lovers
Earth/Air = Death
I would be happier if the Tower was called LE maison Diev
Now what I want to know is- Is this far too artificial? Slightly wrong? Way Wrong?

Hi Lorredan,

I love checking out the boobs and bums on the Noblet too!! ;) I'm not sure I follow you on your elements though!! Does each card have two elements each? The 16 Geomantic figures do each have an 'inner' and 'outer' element. In my Tarot system for the pips and courts, I use the element energy of the suit played against the element energy of the number to find each card's general behavioral tendency and 'temperament'. For example, swords are fiery and choleric, the dyad (2) is watery and phlegmatic, hence the Deuce of Sword is choleric-phlegmatic. This is of course but one factor I consider when coming to judgement about a cards meaning. Is that kinda what you're saying here?


Cheers,

RAH
When a clock is hungry, it goes back four seconds.

Re: Boobs, Bums and Two Dogs.

#3
Hi RAH (or HarHi)
'Tis your fault I ponder much on this ;)
I have no trouble assigning elements to 14 cards of the Atouts.
It is the other 8 mixed cards I have a problem with.
I understand the use of the Sanguine/Melancholic/Phelgmatic/Choleric correspondences, but for my head I need the elements, so I can lay your cross idea out when reading.
Example: When the WOF lands on Fire and I have it Water and Air with emphasis on Water, water sizzles the fire but air would keep it flickering on til drenched.
What to do, what to do?
~Lorredan~
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: Boobs, Bums and Two Dogs.

#4
Hi Lorredan,

You could slide down a level to the 'powers' the make up the classical elements. So, if you are using WoF as Air/Water, the common power is Wet, Air being Hot and Wet, and Water being Cold and Wet. There are several angles that philosophers, doctors, alchemists, astrologers, and mystics approached these subtle universal energies - expanding/contracting, separating/uniting, formative/flexible, etc.. etc... For practical alchemy; making tinctures, elixers, herbal concoctions, etc. they all come in handy, certainly for astrological judgements in horary, and definitely with decumbiture charts. But for the simpler forms of divination like Geomancy, or Tarot, I've found a very simple 'short cut' that has yielded great results:

Cold = Slow

Hot = Fast

Dry = Long

Wet = Short



It's easy, gets great result, and is true to the Elemental system itself - it's historically congruent. The Slow/Fast refers to something's reaction time, how long it takes to kick in. Long/Short refers to duration.


So...

Fire is Fast and Long,
Air is Fast and Short,
Water is Slow and Short,
Earth is Slow and Long.


Basically that's all ya need.

In your example, WoF is used as Air/Water, the common power is Wet, which is Short. (Nice congruency, Fortuna is fickle as hell.. short is perfect for her!) You said she's in a Fire position (Hot/Dry = Fast/Long). The Air of WoF, and the Fire of the position share 'Heat', so there is no problem with being 'Fast'. But, there is a conflict of duration. I'll slap a 'frame' on the card for clarification. Let's say a querent has asked about a job opprotunity, and WoF represents the job or the company hiring. If the card representing the querent is 'good', we can say the querant can get the job. The 'Fast' aspect is shared (no conflict), so the job is open and he can start 'quickly', but the company is 'fickle', perhaps poorly run, or soon to be making some changes and letting people go, so the querent shouldn't see this position as 'long-term', because his time there may be 'short', though of no fault of his own. If this is acceptable to the querent, then he should take the position, if not he should look elsewhere.

Well, that's one way to see it anyway. I like this approach for it's simplicity and elegance. With but two factors, speed and duration, one can get some very precise and detailed results. If you're "feelin' it", give it try and see how it works for you. 8-)


Cheers,

RAH
When a clock is hungry, it goes back four seconds.

Re: Boobs, Bums and Two Dogs.

#5
Thanks RAH, Yep that has got it sorted! I just had to think about it for a minute; and change my inner view of Cold been slow. as that is air- hence Swords. It is just a matter of how your inner eye sees it. Cold =slow= Lazy Cold wind- goes straight through you, instead of around you - thats how I use Art of Memory, it has to make sense for me.~Lorredan~
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

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