Hi Enrique,
I agree, an incredibly unconvincing story. Where is this antique deck? Has it been authenticated/dated in any way? Have the pigments used been studied? Has it been over-painted? Etc., etc, etc.
Having said this, it would have been possible to achieve a purple color without adding another color in the stenciling process by stenciling the more transparent light blue over red, so I guess we can’t really rule out the possibility that purple might have appeared in a few editions of the cards.
Re: Crackpot theories
22Purple was certainly used in early decks, both the Paris and the Catelin Geoffroy have purple areas. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find a Tarot de Marseille that used it as well. I'd sure like to see the magic deck though, especially if it can be traced back to 1400!!!Marcei wrote:Hi Enrique,
I agree, an incredibly unconvincing story. Where is this antique deck? Has it been authenticated in any way? Have the pigments used been studied? Has it been over-painted? Etc., etc, etc.
Having said this, it would have been possible to achieve a purple color without adding another color in the stenciling process by stenciling the more transparent light blue over red, so I guess we can’t really rule out the possibility that purple might have appeared in a few editions of the cards.
Re: Crackpot theories
23Ah! That’s the thing.robert wrote:Marcei wrote: I'd sure like to see the magic deck though, especially if it can be traced back to 1400!!!
The Mexican deck had the original colors, but the original design was something Jodorowsky and Camoin re-assembled by putting together all the available decks. They went back to 1400’s by using ‘super computers’! (They don’t say if this was accomplished din the same way Michael J. Fox used to travel). One may argue that it would have been simpler to re-print the Mexican deck, but it probably contained no eggs. (Well, maybe only yolks If it was painted with tempera, but nothing worthy of being hatched by La Papesse).
EE
What’s honeymoon salad? Lettuce alone
Don’t look now, mayonnaise is dressing!
Don’t look now, mayonnaise is dressing!
Re: Crackpot theories
24Funny, I am not sure how or where, but I have read this too, sometime in the past several years. I was wondering the same as you, so where is this deck you swindled off of the poor son?? I thought it was a bit sleazy to be so proud of themselves for paying him a price less than what they had already settled on with the father.EnriqueEnriquez wrote:One of the most charming moments in Jodorowsky and Camoin’s crackpot theory is the story of how they managed to define the Tarot de Marseille’s true colors. (The story works better if you imagine Tom Hanks acting the part instead of Jodorowsky). At that moment they had successfully restored the Tarot de Marseille to its original form at least as it was in 1400 (“We couldn’t go further back” Jodorowsky would say in his lectures) when the problem of color aroused. Fortunately, Jodorowsky remembered that, in Mexico, a few doors from were he used to live, there was an antique dealer who has shown him a hand-painted tarot and wanted ten thousand dollars for it. They flew to Mexico City and found that the antique dealer had died. His son kept all of his father stuff in a room. Jodorowsky and Camoin found the hand-painted tarot deck among all of the dead man’s belongings, and given that the Antiques dealer son had no idea of how important it was, he was happy to sell it for only five hundred dollars.Nicole wrote:I see to recall some crackpot theory about restoring hidden eggs on the Camoin. Why in the world would someone want to hide eggs? Was it Easter ?
So, there is was, an original Tarot de Marseille, with the original colors, including purple. A mystery revealed!
Best,
EE
"...he wanted to illustrate with his figures many Moral teachings, and under some difficulty, to bite into bad and dangerous customs, & show how today many Actions are done without goodness and honesty, and are accomplished in ways that are contrary to duty and rightfulness."
Re: Crackpot theories
25The rabbit this fool has on his breast coat?robert wrote:Ah-HA! It's a rabbit chasing the fool on the Fool card!Nicole wrote:I see to recall some crackpot theory about restoring hidden eggs on the Camoin. Why in the world would someone want to hide eggs? Was it Easter ?
Re: Crackpot theories
26Hi Robert,
You‘re right, Robert. My reproduction Paris deck does have a maroon color especially prominently displayed on LaPapesse, and I do see from some color reproductions of the Catelin Geofroy cards that they have the same color scheme. This kind of purple is the old tyrian purple. I guess it never really registered with me when I looked at those cards. Thanks! ...and yea, I'd like to see that deck too!robert wrote: Purple was certainly used in early decks, both the Paris and the Catelin Geoffroy have purple areas. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find a Tarot de Marseille that used it as well. I'd sure like to see the magic deck though, especially if it can be traced back to 1400!!!
Re: Crackpot theories
27Hello all,EnriqueEnriquez wrote:One of the most charming moments in Jodorowsky and Camoin’s crackpot theory is the story of how they managed to define the Tarot de Marseille’s true colors. (The story works better if you imagine Tom Hanks acting the part instead of Jodorowsky). At that moment they had successfully restored the Tarot de Marseille to its original form at least as it was in 1400 (“We couldn’t go further back” Jodorowsky would say in his lectures) when the problem of color aroused. Fortunately, Jodorowsky remembered that, in Mexico, a few doors from were he used to live, there was an antique dealer who has shown him a hand-painted tarot and wanted ten thousand dollars for it. They flew to Mexico City and found that the antique dealer had died. His son kept all of his father stuff in a room. Jodorowsky and Camoin found the hand-painted tarot deck among all of the dead man’s belongings, and given that the Antiques dealer son had no idea of how important it was, he was happy to sell it for only five hundred dollars.Nicole wrote:I see to recall some crackpot theory about restoring hidden eggs on the Camoin. Why in the world would someone want to hide eggs? Was it Easter ?
So, there is was, an original Tarot de Marseille, with the original colors, including purple. A mystery revealed!
Best,
EE
The story is nice but Philippe AKA Camoin did paid 50 000 French francs (around 8500 €uros).
And this money was given to him by somebody from his familly.
But Jodorowsky is really a nice story teller with good skills in communication.
The deck was a Tarot deck made in Marseille around Nicolas Conver deck period.
But without any purple color Amigo.
Here is typical exemple of a Legend based/builded up on some truth facts.
Even childs love good storys isn' it ?
Salute,
Yves
Personne n'est au dessus de l'obligation de dire la vérité.
Nobody is above obligation to tell truth.
Nobody is above obligation to tell truth.
Re: Crackpot theories
28SteveM wrote:"The Lost Tarot" currently being promulgated on the history forum by its author 'beano' over at AT.
I went to your link and am confused ...what is all this Lost Tarot about?
You should never hesitate to trade your cow for a handful of magic beans.
Tom Robbins
Tom Robbins
Re: Crackpot theories
29Hi Nicole,Nicole wrote:SteveM wrote:"The Lost Tarot" currently being promulgated on the history forum by its author 'beano' over at AT.
I went to your link and am confused ...what is all this Lost Tarot about?
"The Lost Tarot" is the site of a different member named "beanu" who has been posting a lot on AT, and who has joined the forum here but has not, as of yet, posted anything.
If you go to the history section on AT, you'll see a lot of discussion about his theory, which I *think* involves tarot, the kabbalah, and alchemy.
Re: Crackpot theories
30robert wrote: Hi Nicole,
"The Lost Tarot" is the site of a different member named "beanu" who has been posting a lot on AT, and who has joined the forum here but has not, as of yet, posted anything.
If you go to the history section on AT, you'll see a lot of discussion about his theory, which I *think* involves tarot, the kabbalah, and alchemy.
What, no astrology or numerology? Platonic solids? Projective Synthetic Geometry? Fibonacci series? Triumphal parades? Gypsies?
Ok I' ll behave now
You should never hesitate to trade your cow for a handful of magic beans.
Tom Robbins
Tom Robbins