Hi Huck!
Please accept my apologies for being so rude to you sometimes in this thread.
It was my fault that I didn't recognize that you were only trying to help.
I have been over and over your replies and just did not GET IT - and then it HIT me... like a brick!
Your AVATAR!
It was there all the time - but I only looked at the stupid words when I should have appreciated the artwork.
Since you are proceeding here like if it were a private conversation in PM mode and not a thread on The Unicorn Terrace (where it says right on the invitation: "Have some ideas you'd like to explore? Engage in your favorite "Unicorn Hunt" in this unstuffy area for playful historical pondering." - you know by NOT providing non-German-reading persons with translations or sufficient comments or advice on your German material and stuffing this "unstuffy area" with posting the same pictures over and over and repeating the same (already solved!) non-subjects again and again for no good... )
...you got me thinking. Really. Hard.
I went to some of your posts in other threads.
MAN there are so many! Wow! You are so well read in specific areas.
People turn for advice to you. Like mikeh before he made his appearance here.
In his case you were just not informed enough. That happens.
I introduced you both to a wider scope of the "musiert > musivisch" matter and the problem mikeh had should really have been solved by now.
Not all members like your theories. Especially the Chessboard thing is not very much agreed upon (not only) around here.
But you know what? I actually do! A bit - and looking from "higher ground". Just a change of perspective.
That's why I included you in my PDF.
And "C" does too. In a way. The Chessmen and the Chessboard are in TRUE TAROT too.
The Tarot Cards are the closest to the Chessmen in the "gaming WORLD".
BUT: Tarot it NOT Chess. The Tarot Cards don't BEHAVE like the Chessmen.
The WORLD is their oyster. BUT with a Chessboard PATTERN.
NOT black and white squares. BUT a NET full of diamonds.
For an "outsider" - the common reader - just like you like to call yourself - it is a bit complicated to grasp such ideas.
BECAUSE of THAT Secret Societies like to talk "code"... No not the Copiale stuff... No worries.
More like hiding in plain side. The Chessboard on the "Falconer" you brought.
When you made your silly comment:
>> A playing card from 15th century. Chess was known, but the freemasons were missing then. <<
- you nearly got me AGAIN.
Now I understand that you just tried to stay in character. Of your Avatar - the jester.
The historical jester sometimes went to very serious self-humiliation only to end up shooting himself in the foot (a figure of speech - but it could have been the left one). The common historical jester did that to feed himself. Sometimes with the rotten food that was thrown at him.
But there were others too. Not so common and sacrificing themselves for a higher cause.
You are a seasoned and well respected researcher. Why would you risk your reputation by making things up (like that the TRUE TAROT Scribd PDF was only available for money)?
Actually the quote from "C" that you said was "arrogant" is from the "foreword" - 1st line - to the PDF - same page with the "Download" button and from the link I gave. If you were - due to your "slow connection" - (mysteriously) taken to the link you gave:
https://de.scribd.com/payments/billing
...you would NOT have had the chance to get offended by his "arrogance" because there is no foreword to TRUE TAROT that you could have read (and copied > pasted).
Every REALLY interested reader of this thread (yet there are not many - less than 1% I would say - so no worries about that. Yet.) could find out and see for himself.
An experienced researcher like you would not expect to KNOW anything about the inner sanctum of freemasonry after half an hour of googling plus reading around a bit (the roughly 1h time difference between your 2 posts) plus getting it ALL wrong in your totally absurd 2nd post (later about THAT!)
About the obviously silly comment now:
>> A playing card from 15th century. Chess was known, but the freemasons were missing then. <<
You - or even the most "common reader" - wouldn't expect a full fledged version of anything complicated and SECRET like the Free Masons with rituals and grades and all that stuff that you overlooked appearing for the FIRST TIME in official documents (London 1717) to be the "date of birth" - would you? Really?
Obviously there must be another way a researcher would look at this. Like in a criminal case. Looking for hidden evidence and patterns.
Like this guy who sees the beginning of RECOGNIZABLE Freemasonry at 1440:
http://www.robertlomas.com/Freemason/Origins.html
Like you guys do around here when someone finds a new old deck that has not written TAROT on it.
I agree with him on some terms - but this is just an example for the "higher ground" perspective.
There are other claims that 1390 is the date of the first masonic document. The Halliwell Manuscript. But modern methods see it more around 1450.
The Freemasons pride themselves to stem from the masons who built the cathedrals of Europe.
That should not come along as a huge surprise to you or the common reader in you.
You can get a good popular job description of an evolving master builder in "Pillars Of The Earth" - but the BOOK.
There you can read about "Zeichenboden" (not really translatable > a big square spot on the ground of a room without flooring prepared with a kind of white plaster so that the master builder can sketch his plans for the building with charcoal).
I'm sure that you can find a FREE version somewhere on-line Huck.
But when a master builder had to draw true to scale he used a net made of squares. Like a Chessboard - but only containing the lines of the squares.
I gave a link for that method on the first page (by Adrian Goldwetter on 11 Jan 2015, 18:41):
the art-is-fun.com/grid-method.
Artists used the square-grid method too. Sometimes (Leonardo da Vinci for ex.) they chose for greater accuracy a grid made of TWO of the square-grids.
No 2 above No 1 tilted 45° - just like behind your "falconer".
The spectator of that scene on the card should not only watch the more symbolic falcon (hunting with them was strictly regulated in many parts of Europe).
He should watch foremost the circular thing thats fastened to his shoulders and the gesture of his legs and that the man is standing on the masonic pavement with the chessboard pattern that is in some old English documents called "Trasel-Board" what is a corrupted form of "Tracing-Board".
The only official German word for this - as Huck could have stated himself because he posted it in his 2. quote from freimaurer-wiki.de down at the bottom is: Das MUSIVISCHE PFLASTER. The Headline of the quote.
( >> Im Katechismus der Strikten Observanz (1764; Imhof I, 108) gehört das Winkelmass zu den Kleinodien und das MUSIVISCHE PFLASTER zu den Zieraten. << )
Now you could look up "Tracing-Board" and be as smart as before because all you'll get are masonic links and pictures of the square tiles.
You should look up "tracing synonyms" to get a "picture" of what it really MEANS.
A google service (I think!) is helpful with that.
The 1st window right on top of the page:
>> trace
verb
gerund or present participle: tracing
1. find or discover by investigation.
"police are trying to trace a white van seen in the area"
synonyms: track down, find, discover, detect, unearth, uncover, turn up, hunt down, dig up, ferret out, run to ground; More
find or describe the origin or development of.
"Bob's book traces his flying career with the RAF"
2. follow or mark the course or position of (something) with one's eye, mind, or finger.
"through the binoculars, I traced the path I had taken the night before"
take (a particular path or route).
"a tear traced a lonely path down her cheek"
3. copy (a drawing, map, or design) by drawing over its lines on a superimposed piece of transparent paper.
"trace a map of the world on to a large piece of paper"
synonyms:
copy, reproduce, go over, draw over, draw the lines of, draw, draw up, sketch, draft, outline, rough out, mark out, delineate, map, chart, record, indicate, show, depict.
(This last one is especially interesting when you - or the common reader - observes the LEGS and FEET of the "falconer!)
draw (a pattern or line), especially with one's finger or toe.
"she traced a pattern in the dirt with the toe of her shoe" <<
Any ideas what the falconer guy does here?
I wanted to make it clear what you really did here because I didn't get it back then.
I wasn't precise enough. I should have explained more:
The Scribd registration situation.
The time-frame.
And on and on...
So I thank you very much for sacrificing yourself and shooting yourself in the foot. For the greater good!
I can apreciate this now after this whole hustle Huck!
Can you forgive me? I hope so very much. Time will tell.
I think the Breitkopf thing with the "Musaik" can really rest now.
Your suggestions are clearly a little bit excentric - but it's your foot that you got here in the door.
After that you make a statement I can not comprehend. Sorry.
Above the now several times posted JPG of the "Arbeitstafel (~ working panel) für den 1. Grad, 1819" is the 1st half:
>> As you see, it has an "1819" ... <<
and the 2nd half below:
>> ... when you call it "official Freimaurer-Deutsch". <<
What does that mean? Do you think that is a sentence or have some words gone missing similar to mikeh's post in the other thread?
I can verify to you that I see the "1819". It is the same that I typed in my keyboard when I made the JPG after downloading the "Arbeitstafel" and the "ring" to make a nice fitting illustration for this thread.
So what?
I assume that you refer to my statement that "Das Musivische Pflaster" is the official GERMAN name for "Square Pavement"? Yes?
Well - it is.
Just read though your own quoted paragraph from feimaurer-wiki.de.
Now I must explain to the INTERESTED reader what Huck REALLY did in his 2nd post.
He went to a German site that is dedicated to Freemasonry - and very well maintained and equipped.
For example you can choose a language format. For an all English site like tarothistory.com this should probably have been English.
Now ALL articles get translated to English.
Huck's quote too.
Then it would have been clear from the 1st sentence and the headline on that this article was totally useless for his position:
>> Various competing earlier notes, but the name is floating. <<
Nothing floats here. All quotes in the article are from ENGLISH books that were translated to German.
Often by later authors. Some by the site author - like this:
>> In "A Mason's Examination" from 1723 are four gems - along with two stones - called:
"Square" (drawing board?)
"Common Square" (protractor) <<
In Huck's quote it looks like this:
>> In „A Mason’s Examination“ von 1723 werden unter vier Kleinoden – neben zwei Steinen - genannt:
„Square“ (Reissbrett?),
„Common Square“ (Winkelmass). << (It's the 5th TEXT line from top)
Now: Who in his right mind would translate Square (German = Quadrat) to Reissbrett ( ~ drawing board)?
Someone who does this for context in both languages and because he KNOWS what it is about.
The best way for English reading persons to deal with Huck's quote would be to click his German link and go straight to the right top corner.
DON'T click the flags!!! You'll have a hard time to locate the article!
Click the little white window with the drop down menu for "language select" and scroll down to English. Click.
The actual German page becomes translated. You can point your cursor now at each sentence and you will get a sentence by sentence translation in a little pop up window to the original German version of each text.
The text you are searching for is Huck's quote and headlined "Gems" in the page menu above. Topic 7. When you point your cursor there "Kleinode" should pop up in a white window. The header of Huck's quote.
Now it is much more comprehensible that all different expressions for the floor of square black and white tiles in Freemasonry are of English origin.
The ONLY GERMAN NAME for that same pattern that occurs here is in the last sentence - in Huck's quote - it is from a German book from 1764:
>> The Catechism of the Strict Observance (1764; Imhof I, 108) which is part protractor to the jewels and the pavement mosaic narration to the ornaments. <<
When you move your cursor there you see in the Pop up window:
>> Im Katechismus der Strikten Observanz (1764; Imhof I, 108) gehört das Winkelmass zu den Kleinodien und DAS MUSIVISCHE PFLASTER zu den Zieraten. <<
This is a book that Huck seemingly wasn't able to find in his search:
>> Books.google.com for "musivisches Pflaster" and timerange 1500-1800 .... totally negative. <<
mikeh and Huck seem to have similar problems with search machines. So don't trust them people.
Them search machines. Only your EYES.
But we'll see about that following your ideas about the "falconer".
Maybe. Or not.
Last quote from Huck and his first post.
The last statement (that he got by typing the (official and only GERMAN freemason's) search term "musivisches Pflaster" in his keyboard with the slow connection:
>> Nach einer alten, auf ihren Ursprung kaum überprüfbaren maurerischen Tradition war der Salomonische Tempel mit schwarzen und weißen Steinen gepflastert. <<
>> According to an old, their origin hardly verifiable Masonic tradition was Solomon's temple paved with black and white stones. <<
This is the translation for Huck's German contribution. Provided by the site.
Didn't I warn him (and any interested readers) not to >> get fooled by "Hebrewisms" << ?
But that was before I knew I was talking to a jester. Silly me.
So thanx again for all your help and self-sacrifice Huck! I hope that now all is OK and we can work on this TOGETHER. This can be so much M
RE fun!
I love you man!
Adrian
