Re: Stendhal, "papesse Jeanne", and the "cojononon"

#31
The Bergamese historian Giuseppe Ronchetti (1752-1838) published a translation of a chronicle of the transfer of Bergamo from Milan to Venice in 1428 which he says he read in the Royal Library (now part of the Bibliothèque nationale) in Paris - "alcune cronache manuscritte, da me lette nella Reale Biblioteca di Parigi" (p. 62). He includes an account of an event which took place on 4 July 1428, that includes what appears to be the earliest account of the adoption of the gold and red colors of Bergamo, which stand for the Guelph and Ghibelline parties in the city, respectively.

From Memorie istoriche della città e chiesa di Bergamo (Bergamo, 1819), vol. VI, pp. 63-64:


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/visc ... 819p63.jpg


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/visc ... 819p64.jpg

The account of the standard, on page 64, reads: "... after, they presented a vermilion standard with yellow stripes down the length, which was hung in the Church of San Marco with gold letters which said Civitas Bergomi. [Ronchetti's remark] These two colors were used in Bergamo to indicate the two factions of the Ghibellines and Guelphs, the Yellow and the Red, the first for the Guelphs, and the second for the Ghibellines, which came to form the stemma of our city."

This doesn't make it clear what this original standard looked like - it seems it could have had more than one set of yellow and red stripes.

But the accounts always read "partito d'oro [or "di giallo"] et di rosso", or, as we would say, "party per pale or and gules", and since the rules of heraldry read dexter-sinister (shield holder's right to left, viewer's left to right), it would seems that gold or yellow has to be the dexter side, i.e. the viewer's left (I realize that these rules may not have been codified in the 15th century, most probably not in Italy in any case).

The historian Bortolo Belotti (1877-1944) alludes to this in what I can read of his now-standard history of Bergamo, Storia di Bergamo e dei Bergamaschi (1940; this edition Bolis, 1989), vol. 8, p. 262 -


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/visc ... stemma.jpg

He says that Giuseppe Locatelli, in an article cited in the margin, showed that the stemma of Bergamo can be traced for about five centuries, and describes it as "partito d'oro et di rosso".

Perhaps it is possible that the painter of the Stemmario Trivulziano reversed the order of the colors (but even that remains to be seen), but it is clear that the overwhelming precedent rests with the order gold/yellow and red (L-R).
Image

Re: Stendhal, "papesse Jeanne", and the "cojononon"

#32
This one is from Insignia urbium Italiae septentrionalis (1550-1555).
http://codicon.digitale-sammlungen.de/B ... ?prozent=1
bergamo.jpg
bergamo.jpg (77.82 KiB) Viewed 5297 times
BTW, are we sure that the device on the Knight of Batons is red and yellow? Neither of the two colors seems very clear to me.

About the De Sphera devices, I have not found anything yet. The closest match is not so close:
http://www.archiviodistato.firenze.it/c ... glia&id=74

Re: Stendhal, "papesse Jeanne", and the "cojononon"

#33
Thanks very much for that fine image of the standard stemma of Bergamo, Marco (and it is a very handsome collection in the book, too).

Is there any chance you can see the Stemmario Trivulziano and show us Bergamo's from that work? The nearest copy to me is in Poitiers (425km away, with no interlibrary loan), apparently.

The light part of the Knight of Batons' horse's shield seems to match the background gold to me; but the darker part could be any dark color. There is a hint of a cross in the dark part, but it could be just an accident of the degradation.
Image

Re: Stendhal, "papesse Jeanne", and the "cojononon"

#34
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote: Is there any chance you can see the Stemmario Trivulziano and show us Bergamo's from that work? The nearest copy to me is in Poitiers (425km away, with no interlibrary loan), apparently.
Hello Ross,
the Stemmario is available in libraries in Milan and from the images I have seen online it seems to be beautiful. If Phaeded will not post the image for us, I will go and take a picture. I would also like to see if I can find any of the De Sphaera devices in the Trivulziano, but I am rather busy at the moment, so I don't know when I will have the time for a visit to the library.

Re: Stendhal, "papesse Jeanne", and the "cojononon"

#35
marco wrote:
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote: Is there any chance you can see the Stemmario Trivulziano and show us Bergamo's from that work? The nearest copy to me is in Poitiers (425km away, with no interlibrary loan), apparently.
Hello Ross,
the Stemmario is available in libraries in Milan and from the images I have seen online it seems to be beautiful. If Phaeded will not post the image for us, I will go and take a picture. I would also like to see if I can find any of the De Sphaera devices in the Trivulziano, but I am rather busy at the moment, so I don't know when I will have the time for a visit to the library.
Thanks Marco! You're our man in Milan.
Image

Re: Stendhal, "papesse Jeanne", and the "cojononon"

#36
If Phaeded will not post the image for us, I will go and take a picture....
Hey guys, its not like I own a copy (220 euros!) and all I have is my memory at the moment as I can't even find my notes, but I recall reading Bergamo red/left, "white"/right. I hope I'm remembering right for my sake for everything that follows. Also note Colleoni's standard coat of arms (the three testicles with red/white divided horizontally) is in the Trivulziano. If everyone can wait 10 days I'll photograph the copy in the Newberry ibrary - they're closed this American holiday this Saturday, the only day I'm free to get to this library (the only other copy in the Midwest is at Notre Dame which is the one I previously viewed - there is a slight chance I might swing out that way this weekend).

At all events, my latest: all heraldry sources refer to Colleoni's colors as "rosso" and "argento" with the latter often depicted as white. Colleoni controlled Bergamo from 1455 through his death in 1475 when the fief reverted back to Venice proper. The Trivulziano was written/illustrated during this time period in Milan - 1461-1466 - thus one can presume the colors of the halved shield of Bergamo's coat of arms were replaced with that of its' lord (reverting back to the traditional gold/red when he died). The PMB colors are not even red/gold - the ace of coins, knights of swords and batons caparisons are in fact tarnished silver appearing as gold today; this is per Dummet and Kaplan (see especially the former's description of the relevant ace). I can think of no other explanation for a red/"white" Bergamo - not a simple mistake (unless I'm mistaken) - as Milan knew this town all too well under F. Sforza. The PMB would of course have been for Colleoni with the case being that Bergamo was either being offered to him (pre-1455) or during his "rule" over the city, but then why Sforzan devices everywhere? It had to be between Colleoni's defection from Venice in April 1451 (rejoining Sforza by way of Mantua/Ludovico Gonzaga) and his return to them in 1454/5.

Much more on this under a different subject line later - Stendahl has nothing to do with this!
Phaeded

Re: Stendhal, "papesse Jeanne", and the "cojononon"

#37
Well, here's an exact match, the Milanese family Gaffurro.

"Partito di rosso e d'argento" (also useful to search with is the French "parti de gueules et d'argent", or English (party) per pale gules and (&) argent (sometimes abbreviated in manuals as "gu. & ar." or "gu. and ar.")


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/visc ... ffurro.jpg

(note that the reference above to the Insignia Nobilium Mediolanensium is to the book Marco cited, and there Gafur (GAFVR) is divided horizontally (per fess) not vertically (per pale).

Image

http://codicon.digitale-sammlungen.de/B ... ?prozent=1 )

Another is the town of Attilloncourt (although the blue border appears to be integral to the blazon) -


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/visc ... urt_57.svg

A brief search doesn't bring up a Gaffurro (Gafuro or variously spelled) in connection with Sforza, but at least we know it isn't Bergamo. Not only are the sides wrong, but the colors are wrong too.
Image

Re: Stendhal, "papesse Jeanne", and the "cojononon"

#38
Ross wrote:
… but at least we know it isn't Bergamo. Not only are the sides wrong, but the colors are wrong too.
I’m not sure why you are so anxious to dismiss the PMB-Bergamo possibility based on Bergamo sources not contemporary with the PMB – especially with the most important piece of evidence yet to have been submitted here. Well here it is (I hit the Newberry Library this afternoon) – Bergamo in the Stemmario Trivulziano:
Bergamo, Stemmario Trivulziano,.jpg
Bergamo, Stemmario Trivulziano
(224.9 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Image

And before you decide to dismiss this as “scribal error”, as you have the with the 70 card tarot deck referenced in the 1450s Ferrarese archives, this is the status the Trivulziano enjoys:
Stemmario Trivulziano
By Carlo Magige

Probably the most famous of the stemmari Italian Renaissance among scholars and art historians from around the world, this lavishly illustrated manuscript – probable by Gian Antonio da Tradate – is preserved in the Biblioteca Trivulziana Castello Sforzesco di Milano, together with the magnificent treasures once belonged to the powerful and abundant family of Trivulzio. This code back to the years when the condottiere Francesco Sforza became Duke of Milan (1450-66) [others have narrowed it to 1461-66] … It reproduces – along with the coats of arms and enterprises members of the Ducal House – approximately 2000 coats of arms of families and municipalities of the Duchy, but also some families connected, for different reasons, to the Dukes: so you can recognize, for example, the coat of arms of Germanic Fugger merchants and bankers, or the Ducal Adviser Cicco Simonetta, Calabrian in origin, or of several powerful families of condottieri (Brandolini, Savelli, Orsini, Colonna, etc.) and Lords (Scaligeri, Este, Gonzaga, etc.).
Edizioni Orsini De Marzo-Milano-2000
Happy Labor Day weekend,
Phaeded

Re: Stendhal, "papesse Jeanne", and the "cojononon"

#39
Phaeded wrote:
Ross wrote:
… but at least we know it isn't Bergamo. Not only are the sides wrong, but the colors are wrong too.
I’m not sure why you are so anxious to dismiss the PMB-Bergamo possibility based on Bergamo sources not contemporary with the PMB – especially with the most important piece of evidence yet to have been submitted here. Well here it is (I hit the Newberry Library this afternoon) – Bergamo in the Stemmario Trivulziano.

http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/visc ... ziano1.jpg

Thank you very much indeed.

I'm not "anxious to dismiss" anything. Your arguments don't prove anything, that's all. They are mere speculation.

Note that the color is still gold (yellow/giallo), even on the right side. You argue that the Bergamaschi not only changed the traditional side (which might have been optional), but also adopted silver/white on the right side, to honor or flatter Colleoni for 20 years (why didn't they add the balls too?). This is just baseless speculation, but you need to suppose that the color was changed from gold to silver in order to make the connection to the PMB, and to Colleoni.

Whatever side the colors are on, Bergamo's traditional colors didn't change. The colors on the shields on the PMB cards are red and silver.
And before you decide to dismiss this as “scribal error”, as you have the with the 70 card tarot deck referenced in the 1450s Ferrarese archives,
Again, I didn't "dismiss" it, as if out-of-hand as you imply. I carefully explained my reasoning, why I prefer to consider it a mistake.

The Trivulziano stemma for Bergamo is obviously an important witness, it is the earliest I know. I believe that, with the chronicle Ronchetti referred to saying "il giallo e il rosso" in that order, it is evidence that the sides of the shield were not necessarily fixed yet in the first decades following the adoption of the standard.

In any case, as I said above, the left-right question is just one part of your complex speculative argument for connecting the deck to Colleoni and Bergamo at a particular date. Alone, the order of the colors doesn't prove your theory, it just proves your memory of what you saw in the Stemmario Trivulziano was right. Congratulations!

But none of the rest follows from this fact.
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Re: Stendhal, "papesse Jeanne", and the "cojononon"

#40
Stemmario Trivulziano
By Carlo Magige

Probably the most famous of the stemmari Italian Renaissance among scholars and art historians from around the world, this lavishly illustrated manuscript – probable by Gian Antonio da Tradate – is preserved in the Biblioteca Trivulziana Castello Sforzesco di Milano, together with the magnificent treasures once belonged to the powerful and abundant family of Trivulzio. This code back to the years when the condottiere Francesco Sforza became Duke of Milan (1450-66) [others have narrowed it to 1461-66] … It reproduces – along with the coats of arms and enterprises members of the Ducal House – approximately 2000 coats of arms of families and municipalities of the Duchy, but also some families connected, for different reasons, to the Dukes: so you can recognize, for example, the coat of arms of Germanic Fugger merchants and bankers, or the Ducal Adviser Cicco Simonetta, Calabrian in origin, or of several powerful families of condottieri (Brandolini, Savelli, Orsini, Colonna, etc.) and Lords (Scaligeri, Este, Gonzaga, etc.).
Edizioni Orsini De Marzo-Milano-2000
Interesting detail, that the Fuggers shall have been connected to the Sforzas already in 1461-65. The Fuggers weren't so rich then (in 1469 the 7th richest family in Augsburg, 15 000 Gulden). But in 1459 they gave money for an Italy-journey of the emperor (congress in Mantova?), but the emperor didn't go and the money was gone (so I saw noted here: http://www.martinschlu.de/kulturgeschic ... fugger.htm ) Perhaps a Fugger representative had been in Mantova ? There were a lot of Germans, and Sforza had been there, too.
Huck
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