Huck wrote: Perhaps the question must be asked, when it had been common knowledge so far, that earth is a globe. I mean common knowledge, not internal knowledge of experts. Likely after Columbus detected America, though we know, that Borso had a globe in the mid 1460s (as far I remember ?).

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=334&p=5143&hilit=globe#p5143

The figure of Caesar [in Alfonso's triumph] was on a revolving globe, possibly the first of its kind. Philine Helas has also written an article about globes in 15th century Italy –“"Mundus in rotundo et pulcherrime depictus: nunquam sistens sed continuo volvens": Ephemere Globen in den Festinszenierungen de italienischen Quattrocento” , Der Globusfreund (vol. 45-46 (1997-1998) and has an interesting thesis about the globe in Alfonso’s triumph. The summary is here:

http://www.coronelli.org/publikationen/gf4546.html
(third summary down)

Quote:

“At the above-mentioned event in Naples, Florentine merchants presented a statue of the emperor Caesar standing on a sphere painted to represent the earth, which was constantly revolving. It is my hypothesis that this globe was a product of the "scientific revolution" which began in early 15th Century Florence and was further proliferated by the Union Council in 1439 where Greek and Latin scholars met. Written sources make no mention of the creator of the 1443 globe. We can, however, reconstruct a highly suggestive connection: Piero de' Ricci was the author of a poem recited by Caesar; de' Ricci was acquainted with Paolo dal Pozzo Toscanelli, the great Florentine cartographer who, in turn, was a friend of Filippo Brunelleschi, the well-known architect, engineer and constructor of machines for the religious spectacles in Florence. Together this is a rare combination of humanistic, artistic and scientific knowledge which could have formed the basis for this invention.”

See also the illustrations of the Triumph of Time from Apollonio di Giovanni (1442), Domenico di Michelino (c. 1442), and Pesselino (1450) here -
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Petrarch%27s_triumphs

(you noted both (among others) and included the pictures here -
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=392&start=10#p12432
- the globe is shown in the "T"-map form - Asia, Africa and Europe)

The Earth was commonly depicted as a globe by the early 1440s, in other words.

See also:
http://ezines.onb.ac.at:8080/coronelli/ ... 45-46.html

"MUNDUS IN ROTUNDO ET PULCHERRIME DEPICTUS: NUNQUAM SISTENS SED CONTINUO VOLVENS"
EPHEMERE GLOBEN IN DEN FESTINSZENIERUNGEN DES ITALIENISCHEN QUATTROCENTO

Philine Helas

Dr. Philine Helas, Kunstgeschichtliches Institut der Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin, Unter den Lin-den 6, D-10099 Berlin.

Der Beitrag basiert auf Thesen und Materialien meiner Dissertation Lebende Bilder. Ein Phänomen der italienischen Festkultur des Quattrocento, Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin 1997. Für Anregungen und Hinweise möchte ich Kristen Lippincott und Rudolf Schmidt danken.


Ill. 19 Titelminiatur der "Geographia" Strabons (Firenze, Biblioteca Laurenziana, XXX 7, c 1 r).


Ill. 20 Der dritte Schöpfungstag. Miniatur aus der Bibel Federico da Montefeltros (Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Urb. lat. 1, fol. 7).

SUMMARY

Fifteenth Century Italian culture is characterized by sumptuous pageantry at public feasts, ecclesiastical processions, and in profane ceremonies such as the festive entrance of a ruler, bride or guest of state. On such occasions, living images or tableaux vivants were used. At two events, the entrance of Alfonso d' Aragona in Naples in 1443 and the wedding of Costanzo Sforza and Cammilla d' Aragona in Pesaro in 1475, this pageantry included a personification placed on a globe. These examples are important documentations for the history of the globe in 15-th Century Italy.

At the above-mentioned event in Naples, Florentine merchants presented a statue of the emperor Caesar standing on a sphere painted to represent the earth, which was constantly revolving. It is my hypothesis that this globe was a product of the „scientific revolution" which began in early 15-th Century Flo-rence and was further proliferated by the Union Council in 1439 where Greek and Latin scholars met. Written sources make no mention of the creator of the 1443 globe. We can, however, reconstruct a highly suggestive connection: Piero de' Ricci was the author of a poem recited by Caesar; de' Ricci was acquainted with Paolo dal Pozzo Toscanelli, the great Florentine cartographer who, in turn, was a friend of Filippo Brunelleschi, the well-known architect, engineer and constructor of machines for the religious spectacles in Florence. Together this is a rare combination of humanistic, artistic and scientific know-ledge which could have formed the basis for this invention. It should also be noted that ephemeral decorations formed a special place for artistic experiments."

Huck wrote:

Hello Huck,
in your hypothesis, which is the earliest date that you would accept for the Fame card becoming the World card? Could you propose a range of dates for the invention of the world card?

I think, when it was contemporary called World (Mondo), then we have to accept that it was meant as World. Unluckily the Teruionfi lists appear late. I think, two have justified suspicion to be from late 15th century.
Sola Busca (1491) at least seems to be astronomy related, as Sun-Moon-Star etc., whereas the others seem to present more "my region or my city or my fame".
But generally we have not enough examples.

Perhaps the question must be asked, when it had been common knowledge so far, that earth is a globe. I mean common knowledge, not internal knowledge of experts. Likely after Columbus detected America, though we know, that Borso had a globe in the mid 1460s (as far I remember ?).

Boiardo seem to unite Fool with World on the first card, possibly critically stating, that the fools at his time didn't understand the globe model or general astronomy.

Hello Huck, could you please specify a date that is acceptable for you for the World card replacing the Fame card, according to your theory? I see you mention Sola-Busca. Is that your “ante quem” date? What would you suggest as a “post quem” date?

Just to clarify. I would say: “Tarot included a World (Mondo) card since its invention in 1440 ca”.

I guess you would say: “when tarot was invented in 1440 ca it included a Fame (Fama) card that was replaced by a World card before 1491”.
My question is, when do you think this replacement occurred? 1450? 1480?

I don't follow your argument about the globe, but currently the most important thing for my understanding of your theory is making clear this temporal aspect, that seems important to me.

PS: thanks to Ross for the interesting information about globes. But still I don't get the relevance of this point.

marco wrote: PS: thanks to Ross for the interesting information about globes. But still I don't get the relevance of this point.

I don't think the Earth as a globe is relevant to early Tarot, I was just informing Huck of some facts.

I think the earliest Tarots show the Mondo as a circle, though not necessarily a globe. I think the intention was to show not just the Earth, per se, but the whole sub-lunar sphere, including the four elements. Mondo could also mean the whole visible universe, remembering that Latin "mundus" is equivalent to the Greek "kosmos".

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:

marco wrote: PS: thanks to Ross for the interesting information about globes. But still I don't get the relevance of this point.

I don't think the Earth as a globe is relevant to early Tarot, I was just informing Huck of some facts.

I think the earliest Tarots show the Mondo as a circle, though not necessarily a globe. I think the intention was to show not just the Earth, per se, but the whole sub-lunar sphere, including the four elements. Mondo could also mean the whole visible universe, remembering that Latin "mundus" is equivalent to the Greek "kosmos".

Sorry Ross, I expressed myself in a poor way
I was asking Huck to clarify his point of view, which I can understand only in part.
I agree with what you write about the globe and the circle and the fact that Il Mondo can mean both "planet Earth" and "the Universe".

mikeh wrote: I am not assuming that the images in the CY are specific to Milan, except of course the heraldics). We might also imagine that I have been told that this a game of Triumphs. From that perspective, they naturally fall into three groups:

5 of the 7 Petrarchan Triumphs
5 of the 7 Cardinal + Theological Virtues
Emperor.

... :-) ...
I guess it are ...
5 of the 6 Petrarca Triumphs
4 of the 7 Cardinal + Theological Virtues
Empress, Emperor.

And for the Chess Tarot theory I see:

Pawns = 7 virtues + LOVE as pawn before the Queen
Rooks = FAME + Judgment (also ETERNITY)
Knights = DEATH + Chariot (also CHASTITY)
Bishops = (perhaps TIME; perhaps hermit and traitor or Fool)
Queen = Empress (also CHASTITY)
King = Emperor (also ETERNITY)

Bishop explanations:
In France the Bishop was called Fou.
In the exotic Courier chess (very old) an "old man" and a "Schleich" (= Fool) were positioned near to King and Queen.
There was another very exotic chess version "short-assiz" (with a fixed strange fixed opening), in which the Queen pawn got a special function together with the Queen. This gave the Queen pawn a special character, likely associated to Love. The Courier chess had also a fixed opening, in which Queen and Queen's pawn were moved together.

Courier chess:

http://www.chessvariants.org/historic.dir/courier.html ... (with rules)

Actually the usual old 2 bishops were split in Courier chess in six figures (twice the old bishop or elephant; twice the modern bishop; one figure the "old man", another figure the Schleich = Fool)

"Short assize" opening
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=460&p=10597&hilit= ... sis#p10597


Courier opening


It's difficult to say, how popular these special versions were. Most Chess documents - similar to Trionfi documents, which forget us to say, how much cards were used - addressed "Chess" without attributes as playing material, board-size and opening position.

In my opinion some knowledge of "short assize", "Courier Chess" and also "Chess with dice" played a role in the genesis of the Trionfi cards.

*******************

Bologna is where a 1414 manuscript of the Trionfi was made (I'm not sure if it was the whole or a fragment), likely on Vergerio's orders for the Council of Constance;

It's a fragment. We couldn't locate any full version, we have three fragments:

a. 1414 (Bologna/Munich),
b. a "first quarter of 15th century", now in US-America,
c. the finding of Ross in a letter of March 1439 (Milan or near Milan), so after the triumphal entry celebrations or the council in Florence and so possibly a reaction on something, which happened in Florence.
(d.) Further a not confirmed version in 1418, possibly in the possession of Cosimo di Medici

******************

Generally we have, that Vergerius (with his special Petrarca interests) went after the council to the court of the emperor Sigismondo. At the court of the emperor he likely met another sort of spirit (and game spirit) as it was common in Italy. Naturally there should have been a spirit connected to knight interests. Johannes Rothe in c. 1415 in Eisenach (far away from the emperor court) formed an idea of 7 virtues (Behendigheit) of knights, in which chess played a role.

Spiel und sportl. Fertigkeiten wollen erlernt, geübt sein, damit man sich als Adliger in ihnen vor anderen erweisen kann, und so verwundert es nicht, daß in Erziehungsschriften wie der "Disciplina clericalis" des Petrus Alfonsi, Leibarzt Kg. Alfons’ I. von Aragón und Navarra, zu Beginn des 12. Jh.s [begin 12th century] zur perfecta nobilitas auch sieben probitates (Fertigkeiten) gerechnet werden, näml. Reiten, Schwimmen, Bogenschießen, Faustkampf, Vogelfang, Schachspiel und Dichtung. Ähnl. äußerte sich der Eisenacher Kanoniker Johannes Rothe in seinem ,Ritterspiegel‘ von ca. 1415 (Paravicini 2002, S. 14 f.), der seinen jungen Herren sieben behendikeid empfiehlt, die von einem vollinkommen man erwartet würden, näml. das Reiten und Schwimmen, das Schießen und Klettern, das Turnieren und Tjostieren, das Fechten und den Weitsprung vor andirn luthin, womit er beiläufig auf die Gesellschaft verweist, unter deren Augen ein solcher Wettstreit stattfindet. Wenn Rothe zuletzt die gute Beherrschung des Tischdiensts, das Tanzen und Hofieren (womit hier wohl das Musizieren gemeint ist) und das Brettspiel erwähnt, so spricht er damit den inneren, häusl. Bereich höf. Kommunikation an und weitet zugl., wie bereits Alfonsi mit der Dichtkunst, den spielerisch-sportl. Rahmen zu Unterhaltung, aber auch zu guten Manieren, kurzum zum vollkommenen höf. Verhalten. Dieses gereiche, so Rothe abschließend, dem Ritter zur Zierde.

It's a question, how much "Petrarca" Vergerius might have brought to Hungary and the Emperor court. For the moment I see more or less nothing from it. Definitely Vergerius caused, that other Italians also went to the Hungarian court.

Between Castagno's 9 persons we meet Pippo Spano ...



... who, born in 1369, died in Hungary 1426, so in Vergerius' time. But Pippo had been already in Hungary in 1382, so one can't clam, that Vergerius brought Pippo to Hungary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipo_of_Ozora.

But finally we meet Pippo Spano together with Petrarca, Dante and Boccaccio and others painted by Andrea Castagno in frescoes in the house of Filippo Carducci, a friend of the Medici. The other both condottieri in the series are from earlier times, Farinata degli Uberti, used by Dante in his Inferno ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farinata_degli_Uberti
... and Niccolò Acciaioli, called "friend and protector of Petrarch and Boccaccio" ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Acciaioli
... are from much earlier times.

So at least 2 of the 3 Andrea Castagno condottieri had a relation to Dante, Petrarca and Boccaccio, who were painted in the same room.

Pippo had been more or less not much in Italy after 1482 , but possibly between 1410-1414, the period, when Vergerius indirectly prepared to become an Hungarian.

In 1408, Pipo became the Ban of Severin (Szörény) and member of the prestigious Order of the Dragon; by that time, he had become wealthy and powerful. In 1410, Sigismund sent him to persuade Italian city-states to cut off their links with Naples: he traveled in great pomp to his native Florence, then to Ferrara (meeting Niccolò III d'Este). In August, he was received by Pisan Antipope John XXIII. In September, present in Venice, Pipo Inzaghi is said to have backed a conspiracy.

As part of the anti-Venetian campaign of 1411, Lo Scolari entered Friuli at the head of an army, conquered Aquileia and, in December, he took Udine and several fortresses in Romagna, then Vittorio Veneto - capturing a high official from the Barbarigo family. In January 1412, the renewed attack ensured Pipo a supply of high-ranking Venetian prisoners, whom he ordered mutilated to avenge a Hungarian killed by the enemy.

He suffered a major defeat at the Battle of Motta in August 1412 against the Venetian Republic under Carlo Malatesta.[1] Pipo intended to besiege Padua in January, but he couldn't maintain his army on the spot, and moved towards the Brenta, in Cartigliano and Marostica, leading an unsuccessful attack on Vicenza. Further failures provoked his retreat to Friuli, and then to Hungary, in February. This outcome made Venetian accounts imply a settlement with the Most Serene Republic, and even the mythical execution of Pipo as revenge by the Emperor King (he supposedly had molten gold poured down his throat).

Lo Scolari returned to Friuli in September, in order to aid Florence against Ladislaus' troops. At Lodi (in Lombardy), he attended the meeting between Sigismund and the ruler of the city, Giovanni da Vignate.
Pipo took part in the March 1414 initial proceedings of the Council of Constance, where the Emperor King charged him with guarding John XXIII - an assignment he did not fully accomplish, as the Antipope soon managed to flee. In 1415, the Count of Temesvár witnessed the rebel Jan Hus' execution in Konstanz.

From Italian wikipedia I get the info, that there was a relation between Pippo and the Florentine painter Masolino da Panicale, who according German wikipedia "mid of the 1420s" was in Hungary. (Pippo died 1426). After this journey Masolino, back in Florence, worked with Masaccio at the Brancacci Chapel.

Wikipedia "Brancacci Chapel" has it in this way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappella_Brancacci

The patron of the pictorial decoration was Felice Brancacci, descendant of Pietro, who had served as the Florentine ambassador to Cairo until 1423.[2] Upon his return to Florence, he hired Masolino da Panicale to paint his chapel. Masolino's associate, 21-year-old Masaccio, 18 years younger than Masolino, assisted, but during painting Masolino left to Hungary, where he was painter to the king, and the commission was given to Masaccio. By the time Masolino returned he was learning from his talented former student. However, Masaccio was called to Rome before he could finish the chapel, and died in Rome at the age of 27. Portions of the chapel were completed later by Filippino Lippi. Unfortunately during the Baroque period some of the paintings were seen as unfashionable and a tomb was placed in front of them.

The Brancacci Chapel has this picture (Adam + Eve) ...



... which (my opinion) became the prototype for the later Minchiate Tower motif:



Masaccio was the older brother of Lo Scheggia (* 1406), from whom we know, that he in 1447/48 made playing cards playing cards for the Puri family.
In 1449 Lo Scheggia made the round Fama picture as a birth picture for Lorenzo di Medici (* 1.1.1449), further he produced Trionfi cassone, so things, which defintely belong to our theme.
One of his pictures ...



... shows a naked lady with some similarities to the naked lady on a Temperance card made for Alessandro Sforza ...


http://trionfi.com/etx-origin-triumphs

... and the Alessandro Sforza cards have some relation to the Charles VI Tarocchi. So there's suspicion, that Lo Scheggia might have had something to do with the production of the two decks.

Andrea da Castagno now is related in his style to Masaccio with no clear issue, how this might have happened. He was too young to have been his pupil.
Andrea had the nick name "Andrea degli Impiccati", a name which looks to us like a relationship to the Tarot card "Hanging Man", but art historians don't know so much about Tarot and so they see just a "Hanging Man". Naturally we know, that the origin of the Trionfi cards should be "around 1440", but art historians relate the name to a story in 1440 and still know nothing of Tarot- or Trionfi card context and also not, that the origin of the Trionfi cards should be "around 1440".
But we should realize, that this a "strange accident".

I didn't find another clear relation between Lo Scheggia and Andrea da Castagno, just that Andrea used Masaccio style, and Lo Scheggia was the brother of Masaccio and likely also Lo Scheggia worked in the Brancacci chapel.

Well, there's still something to say, but it's long enough for the moment.

Marco,

I can't tell a fixed date, as the documentary material is not enough.
I think, that the Cary-Yale card very probable is not World. The rest of the 15th century gets for its so-called World cards a "???" from me, whereby my opinion is more on a flexible side. Charles VI is in my opinion very much more Fame-Prudentia than World, others are not as strong.

Ross,

thanks for the Globe material,. Yes, it was 1477 and not in the mid 1460s, but then likely the same person sold maps to Borso. MikeH and me had once an intensive discussion plus research about this point, I think, in the Mantegna thread. I didn't found it in a quick way, for the moment I haven't the time for it.

Hi Mike,

mikeh wrote: We know that such games existed, at least by the later 15th century, since games with those titles--"Game of the Triumphs of Petrarch," "Game of the Seven Virtues"--are listed in the inventory of the printmaker Rosselli's shop in Florence, after his son's death in 1525 (Hind, Early Italian Engravings p. 222). For details on the cards, topical considerationswould have been important, such as relevant heraldics, battles, etc. It is an educational game, probably designed as such to give the Church an excuse not to apply the strictures with which its members often threatened other card games.

It should be pointed out that we don't actually "know that such games existed". Hind himself identified the "giuocho del trionfo del petrarcha in 3 pezi" and the "giuocho di pianeti chon loro fregi, in 4 pezi" (lines 72 and 73 of the inventory) with known prints of those subjects. In other words, they were not card games (see pages 304-309 for his full discussion of the Rosselli inventory).

However, he thinks that items 1 and 4 of the inventory are card games, although there is no reason to think that "giuocho" here means anything different than what it means in items 72 and 73 (except the former are wood, and the latter metal, plates) -
(1) giuoco d'apostoli chol nostro singnore, in sette pezi, di lengno
(4)giuoco di sete virtù in 5 pezi, di lengno

He comments (page 308):

"1,4. Note packs of cards with Christ and the Apostles, and the Seven Virtues. This seems to reflect the influence of Savonarola."

But there is no doubt to him or to any other commentator on Italian engraving, that the "giuoco" of the Triumphs of Petrarch, and that of the Seven Planets, are well known prints of exactly those subjects, not packs of cards at all. Is it more likely that items 1 and 4 are not (blocks for) packs of cards either, or that 72 and 73 ARE packs of cards, and every expert has misidentified them? I think that the former is more likely - that is, that 1 and 4 are not packs of cards. I don't know why 5 blocks would be needed though, for 7 subjects, unless there were two Virtues on two plates and one each on the other 3. Perhaps the Theological Virtues got their own plates, and the Cardinal Virtues had to share. This makes sense for Christ with the Apostles too - a set where there were six blocks with two Apostles each, and one dedicated to Christ alone, therefore 7.

Those subjects as a series (and even most of the subjects individually) are not represented in surviving Italian engravings of the 15th century, so therefore not in Hind or Zucker, but perhaps as the entry says, they are woodcuts ("di legno"), so maybe we could find them among surviving examples. I don't have a full collection of 15th century Italian woodcuts though, so I can't offer any help in identifying them.

So, to sum up, it appears more likely that there are no card games at all listed in the Rosselli Inventory, and that the word "giuoco" is used in a metaphorical sense, as something simple and enjoyable to look at (as opposed, say, to a serious devotional painting or a detailed miniature in a book of Petrarch's Trionfi).

Michael Hurst wrote:
Therefore, knowing how subjects were routinely conflated in early Italian Tarot decks, and knowing the common significance of that attribute in Florentine art, when the triumphant figure on the World card shows that same attribute, the idea becomes inescapable that a fourth virtue was included in the deck, conflated with the World. The implication, in lieu of any other specific identifying attributes, is Prudence.

This may not be the author's intention -- I can't read his mind. But it is the apparent intention of the work, to use Eco's distinction. And that is the argument I made to Ross. As for how you apply that argument to a Milanese deck which lacks the attributes under discussion, I have no clue.

Clues:
1. The earliest deck is from Florence and is the likely origin for Tarot
2. CVI is likewise Florentine and as such should have been fairly consistent unless there was a context for changing some of the cards
3. The intervening CY deck, very close in time to the earliest Florentine deck, followed the Florentine model except for changes in the context. There is a genetic connection between the Florentine/Anghiari deck and the Milanese CY deck - Milan did not invent the tarot, Florence did.

And we know the context for the earliest decks: decks given to condottieri.

The Giusti/Malatesta celebratory Anghairi deck likely had a similar deck given to Sforza with his belli; the CY deck does have his belli in the form of the quince and fountain on two of the four suits (the other two suits are Visconti stemma, thus perfectly suited [pun intended] for a marriage deck).

The "World" (where is a globe in any of these decks?) is not just Prudence conflated with an attribute of fama but is specifically the fama of a specific principality and its ruler(s):
CY = Cremona-Ancona, the resulting "merger" of Bianca with Sforza.
CVI: The Florentine contado (a hilly Tuscan countryside is shown, perhaps the Mugello - NOT "the World").
PMB: idealized/rebuilt Milan after the ravages of the Ambrosian Republic (e.g., the Republican mob tore down Visconti's residences/castle in town).

Phaeded

mikeh wrote: On the other hand, Kaplan also says that the fountain, which we see on the fronts of the male Lover and the Baton courts, is a Sforza device (this is also in his 1978 Encyclopedia vol. 1 p. 62). If so, that would make Batons, one of the two suits with weapons, a Sforza suit. It would make sense for the other weapon-suit, Swords, which has the Pomegranate/Quince, to also be a Sforza suit, and so be with quinces. These two suits would be appropriate to a condottiere getting married (or having a child, if it is a 1444 christianing present), while his Visconti wife gets Cups, for sweetness and piety, and Coins, for wealth (at least Cremona).

You got me to rexamine the suits as an interreleted whole, particularly in light of the problems associated with the CY Chariot and King of Swords - I will post a separate post on that soon. A problem I'm still grappling with: the female Sword suit court cards do appear to have pomegranates, but the 3-lobed "tulip"-like shapes on the King of Swords is clearly different (compounding the problem: the other two male Sword court cards did not survive).

Phaeded