Re: Casa del Petrarca

#71
Interesting. At least a lead.

"The Triumphs were probably undertaken around the mid-thirteenfifties and the writing took a long time: from 1357 to 1374. Nevertheless, they were not written in final draft and they did not circulate, not even partially, during Petrarch's life. Shortly after his death, Giovanni Boccaccio first and Giovanni Dondi later, asked both to Francescuolo da Brossano and Lombardo della Seta for news about the work, as they were in charge of Petrarch's writings and had to take care of its first circulation."

http://www.internetculturale.it/opencms ... /37-f.html

Steve's quote is from the same site -
http://www.internetculturale.it/opencms ... /28-b.html

If a passage is on the web somewhere, you can find it by typing in a phrase of three or four words, in double quotes - "...". For instance, I googled "published the posthumous" and "incomplete works" (because the word "Petrarchian" seemed strange and unlikely to me). The first result was Steve's quote, the second was irrelevant.
Image

Re: Casa del Petrarca

#73
Steve had a link ...

... in which I found this passage:
The Triumph of Fame is not a subject not from De viris illustribus, but from Petrarch’s Trionfi.
There is evidence, however, that the original decorations in the Sala virorum illustrium also
included a depiction of the Triumph of Fame.625

Footnote 625: Mommsen, “Petrarch and the decoration of the Sala virorum illustrium,” 107-108. Julius von Schlosser was the first to suggest that the Triumph of Fame was depicted in the Sala virorum illustrium. His argument is summarized
by Mommsen, who notes that there are three fourteenth-century Paduan manuscripts of De viris which all feature a
depiction of the Triumph of Fame. One of these is the original from 1379, one is another copy in Paris, and the third
is in Darmstadt (Darmstadt, Universitäts- und Ländesbilbiothek, MS 101). The Darmstadt manuscript contains
illustrations of the text of De viris, and the portrait of Petrarch here is a copy of the one in the Sala virorum
illustrium (the only surviving original painting from the Sala virorum). Mommsen argues that “The similarity of
these three illuminations and their common Paduan origin make it probable that they were all derived from a fresco
in the Carrara palace.”
So there are two other manuscripts, perhaps some more were produced. The combination of Trionfo "Fame" with Famous Men remembers me on the Sola Busca program.Fama isn't in it, but famous men inside a Trionfi game.

This is from the end of his life, I'm not sure with the translation. Does it say, that he took the side of a traitor?
Quando che in te 'l dissenbre 1388 i Visconti milanesi ga conquistà Padova, Lombardo della Seta ga fato un grosso sbalio. El se ga butà da la parte del traditore Bonifacio de i Conti Lupi di Soragna, che gera stà uno de i comandanti de l'esèrcito cararese e che se ga messo d'acordo co' i nemissi. Forse Lombardo pensava che i Visconti restasse par senpre a Padova. Ma in te 'l giugno de'l 1390 el Principe Francesco II Novello da Carrara co' 'na straordinaria e corajosa assion militare ga riconquistà Padova e la Signoria. Bonifacio di Soragna xe stà copà in duelo dal Carrarese e, co' razon, Lombardo della Seta xe stà mandà in esilio a Venezia, dove che 'l xe morto l'11 de agosto del stesso ano, forse de crepacuore.
El fiolo de Lombardo ga domandà de sepelire el corpo de so papà a Arquà, vissin al Petrarca, ma el Principe da Carrara ga dito de nò.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Casa del Petrarca

#75
Hi, Huck,
Huck wrote:Steve had a link ...

... in which I found this passage:
... there are three fourteenth-century Paduan manuscripts of De viris which all feature a
depiction of the Triumph of Fame.
Those are the three I posted at the top of the Petrarch's triumphs page. You might want to add additional comments to the individual images, using keywords like Darmstadt, so they turn up in searches.

Darmstadt MS Ital 101
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... a-1400.jpg
BnF MS Lat 6069-I
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... giotto.jpg
BnF MS Lat 6069-F
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... detail.jpg

P.S. I've added a high-resolution color version of BnF MS Lat 6069-I.

Best regards,
Michael
We are either dwarfs standing on the shoulders of giants, or we are just dwarfs.

Re: Casa del Petrarca

#76
mjhurst wrote:Hi, Huck,
Huck wrote:Steve had a link ...

... in which I found this passage:
... there are three fourteenth-century Paduan manuscripts of De viris which all feature a
depiction of the Triumph of Fame.
Those are the three I posted at the top of the Petrarch's triumphs page. You might want to add additional comments to the individual images, using keywords like Darmstadt, so they turn up in searches.

Darmstadt MS Ital 101
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... a-1400.jpg
BnF MS Lat 6069-I
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... giotto.jpg
BnF MS Lat 6069-F
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... detail.jpg

P.S. I've added a high-resolution color version of BnF MS Lat 6069-I.

Best regards,
Michael
Thanks Michael, that's good.

Do you've insights, if there were other pictures in these edition?
Steve's source said ...
On behalf of Francesco I da Carrara he concluded the De viris illustribus in the final style wanted by the author. In addition he took care of the papers that Petrarch had left to his son-in-law Francescuolo da Brossano, and therefore published the posthumous Petrarchian incomplete works (Africa, Rerum memorandarum libri, Secretum, Seniles, and Trionfi).
I found no confirmation for the "Trionfi" till now ... beside the condition, that Trionfo Fame appears in the 3 editions with the famous men till 1379
The House of Fame is a poem by Geoffrey Chaucer, probably written between 1379 and 1380, making it one of his earlier works.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_of_Fame

It's interesting to see, that Chaucer's "Fame" version meets rather precisely the same time, 1379.

Michael, do you know of other Trionfi editions "before 1441" beside those, which we have already mentioned (fragments in 1439, 1414 and one "first quarter in 15th century", possibly the not confirmed version in 1418 in Medici hands)?

Steve's note mentions also Africa as edited by Lombardo della Seta, otherwise I got the info, that Vergerius published Africa.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Casa del Petrarca

#77
Hi, Huck,
Huck wrote:Do you've insights, if there were other pictures in these edition?
Both manuscripts contain a portrait of Petrarch, and one contains a very nice version of the Visconti Bissa, the snake logo. I've uploaded a few more images, three full-page scans from Gallica. (The manuscripts are linked on the Wikimedia Commons' pages.)

Frontispiece to De Viris Illustribus, 1379 (BnF MS Latin 6069F)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... y-14th.jpg
Table of Contents to De Viris Illustribus, 1379 (BnF MS Latin 6069F), with portrait
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... -6069F.jpg
Frontispiece to Petrarch's De Viris Illustribus, c.1388 (BnF MS Latin 6069I), with portrait
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... y-14th.jpg
Huck wrote:Steve's source said ...
On behalf of Francesco I da Carrara he concluded the De viris illustribus in the final style wanted by the author. In addition he took care of the papers that Petrarch had left to his son-in-law Francescuolo da Brossano, and therefore published the posthumous Petrarchian incomplete works (Africa, Rerum memorandarum libri, Secretum, Seniles, and Trionfi).
I found no confirmation for the "Trionfi" till now ... beside the condition, that Trionfo Fame appears in the 3 editions with the famous men till 1379
The House of Fame is a poem by Geoffrey Chaucer, probably written between 1379 and 1380, making it one of his earlier works.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_of_Fame
It's interesting to see, that Chaucer's "Fame" version meets rather precisely the same time, 1379.

Michael, do you know of other Trionfi editions "before 1441" beside those, which we have already mentioned (fragments in 1439, 1414 and one "first quarter in 15th century", possibly the not confirmed version in 1418 in Medici hands)?
I don't, and given the great amount of research which has been done in this area, it seems very unlikely that there are others waiting to be discovered. Most of my information comes from secondary sources like Studies of Petrarch and His Influence (2003), and Petrarch's Triumphs: Allegory and Spectacle (1988), and articles like Mommsen, Gilbert, and Shorr, which I've been referencing for years.

Regarding Chaucer (and Lydgate), they were indeed fond of Petrarch and Boccaccio and treated many of the same themes. Regarding the illustration of Petrarchian Trionfi, the sequence of development, to the best of my knowledge, is what we have discussed before.

In 1335, Giotto created a Triumph of Fame (or Glory, or Vainglory) as part of a fresco cycle of Famous Men. Other such cycles, some with a Triumph of Fame, were also created.

In 1342, Boccaccio wrote a description (ekphrasis) of Giotto's Triumph in Amorosa Visione.

In 1379 and later manuscripts of Petrarch's Viris Illustribus, artists included a Triumph of Fame (or Glory, etc.) as frontispiece. These appear to be based on the description by Boccaccio.

Then in the 1440s, Renaissance triumphalism exploded. Some of the most extraordinary early examples are the tradition of Petrarchian cycles on cassoni and in illustrated manuscripts, Tarot itself, and the famous and monumentally commemorated Triumph of Alfonso, which included allegorical elements linking it with the Petrarchian tradition. The triumphal cycles were clearly NOT based on Petrarch's poems, given that triumphal cars do not even appear in five of the six Triumphs. Instead, they appear to be based on the Triumph of Fame tradition, also associated with Petrarch. That period (actually, 1450) also saw the beginning of the triumphal renovation of the Church of St. Francis in Rimini, commissioned by the first known Tarot aficionado.

Best regards,
Michael

P.S. Here is the detail image of Petrarch's portrait.
Image
We are either dwarfs standing on the shoulders of giants, or we are just dwarfs.

Re: Casa del Petrarca

#78
This article might give more insight into what Petrarch left to Francescuolo da Brossano

Paolo Sambin, "Libri del Petrarca presso suoi discendenti", Italia medioevale e umanistica, I (1958), pp. 359-69.

It is cited as the note to the following bit of information at the internetculturale page Steve first quoted from: "In his testament Petrarch designated Francescuolo da Brossano as his universal heir: and as such he had to manage a part of the library of his illustrious father-in-law (including the Canzoniere autograph ), that thanks to him remained for centuries in Padua (2) ."

http://www.internetculturale.it/opencms ... n/6-f.html
Image

Re: Casa del Petrarca

#79
Thanks ...

maybe this is of interest: I saw the remark (I don't know about the "where" in the moment), that Dante had his lover Beatrice on a triumphal chariot and this would be the first appearance. I remember no remark about any connected early pictures, but later there is at least one.

Here's a Giotto picture in San Francesco of Assissi context " "Legend of St. Francis: 8. Vision of the Flaming Chariot" ...

http://davidlavery.net/Barfield/barfiel ... knight.htm

Actually I remember a whole Merkabah (Chariot) mystic (of the early centuries) from pre-kabbala Jewish literature ... and I wonder if this never had evolved in pictures.

The begin of Kabbala in 1170 in Southern France was connected to Elias visions ...

Image

http://cantuar.blogspot.de/2012_02_01_archive.html

Venice robbed a Quadriga from Constantinople in 1204 ... :-) ...



I can't imagine, that this all happened with nobody painting a few pictures.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Casa del Petrarca

#80
Constantinople in its good times had 100.000s of inhabitants.
n the 9th and 10th centuries, Constantinople had a population of between 500,000 and 800,000.
...
The Venetians had factories on the north side of the Golden Horn, and large numbers of westerners were present in the city throughout the 12th century. Toward the end of Manuel I's reign, the number of foreigners in the city reached about 60,000-80,000 people out of a total population of about 400,000 people.
...
Although Constantinople was retaken by Michael VIII, the Empire had lost many of its key economic resources, and struggled to survive. The palace of Blachernae in the north-west of the city became the main Imperial residence, with the old Great Palace on the shores of the Bosporus going into decline. When Michael VIII captured the city, its population was 35,000 people, but, by the end of his reign, he had succeeded in increasing the population to about 70,000 people.[42] The Emperor achieved this by summoning former residents having fled the city when the Crusaders captured it, and by relocating Greeks from the recently reconquered Peloponnese to the capital.[43] In 1347, the Black Death spread to Constantinople.[44] In 1453, when the Ottoman Turks captured the city, it contained approximately 50,000 people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantinople

In the time, when it had these 100.000s of inhabitants they still remembered and practiced occasionally the earlier Roman triumphal celebrations.
When in 1439 some 700 poor Greeks came to Florence, surely some of the Greek visitors remembered the proud and glorious earlier times, at least they didn't love to appear as poor beggars. With their old books and their stories they could evoke a massive Florentine enthusiasm about "Trionfi". ... :-) ... likely we will find this out.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

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