Re: German Lenormand 1846 / Spiel der Hoffnung 1799

#31
Huck wrote:Thanks,
I'll take a closer look, but momentary I'm occupied with some other stuff.
No rush Huck i-)

I found some other useful bits and pieces I thought I would post here in case anyone is interested.

You can see an example of a German-suited fortune telling deck with similar suit symbolism to Lenormand (by Industrie Comptoir, Leipzig c.1818) on The World of Playing Cards website here.

The divination meaning of the German suits is also described by Hubert Streicher (born 1893) in Das Wahrsagen (Verlag Julius Springer, Wien 1926). Streicher was a lecturer in criminology at the University of Vienna. Google Books only allows Snippet View ( :-l ) but I managed to extract the suit meanings:
Als Farbe bedeuten Schellen: Reichtum, Wohlstand, sorgenfreies Leben.
Als Farbe bedeutet Grün beim Aufschlagen: angenehme Hoffnung, Glück in Unternehmungen und bei Damen (für Herren) bzw. bei Herren (für Damen als Fragesteller).
Als Farbe bedeutet Herz: Aufrichtigkeit, Freundschaft und Liebe.
Als Farbe bedeuten Eichel: Unangenehme Vorfälle, Mißhelligkeiten, Verlust, Ehrenkränkung, viele Arbeit, Mühe und Falschheit.
In English:
As suit bells means: Wealth, prosperity, carefree life.
As suit green means in fortune-telling: Pleasant hope, happiness in undertakings and in women (for men) and in men (for women as questioner).
As suit hearts means: Sincerity, friendship and love.
As suit acorns means: Unpleasant incidents, disagreements, loss, insult, a lot of work, trouble and falsehood.

Edited to add:

Streicher provides a source for these associations: "Erdmann: Wer wird mein Mann, Wien, 1892", the original publication year of which was listed as 1855:

"Erdmann, J Fridolin
Who will be my husband? An infallible book on fortune-telling by cards combined with an appendix: to predict the future from coffee grounds and a short witty interpretation of dreams. Litomyšl. Vienna (1855)."
["Wer wird mein Mann? Ein untrügliches Kartenwahrsagebuch verbunden mit einem Anhange: die Zukunft aus dem Kaffeesatze zu prophezeien und einer kurzen launigen Auslegung der Träume. Leitomischl. Wien (855)."]
Vollständiges Bücher-Lexicon, Leipzig 1860

Re: German Lenormand 1846 / Spiel der Hoffnung 1799

#32
Hi Helen,

I found at your webpage:
http://mywingsofdesireblog.blogspot.de/ ... ntity.html
The name of the famous French cartomancer, Mademoiselle Lenormand (1772-1843), was first used in connection with the 36 card Petit Lenormand deck a few years after her death no later than 1846. We now know that the deck was previously published as Das Spiel der Hoffnung c1799 by Bieling in Nuremberg, Germany, and that it was authored by Johann Kaspar Hechtel (1771-1799) of Nuremberg (see image of the cards on the British Museum website here).

Such cards are included in a listing of new German publications for the period 1841-1846 as follows:

"Wahrsagerin, die, Mlle. Lenormand. Erklärung des Kartenspiels d. berühmten Wahrsagerin Mlle. Lenormand in Paris. Herausgegeben v. deren Erben Chator. 32. (36 illumin. Karten u. Text) Coblenz 846, Reiff. In Etui."
Neues Bücher Lexicon (Weigel, 1848)
I'd searched myself for announcements of the Petit Lenormand, but I found nothing earlier than 1846. Now I'm puzzled about the "1841-46". Are there any new sources?
Lenormand was still alive in 1843. Generally it's assumed, that taking her name in advertising other products started after her death ... which seems logical. "1841" would contradict this.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: German Lenormand 1846 / Spiel der Hoffnung 1799

#33
Huck wrote:Hi Helen,

I found at your webpage:
http://mywingsofdesireblog.blogspot.de/ ... ntity.html
The name of the famous French cartomancer, Mademoiselle Lenormand (1772-1843), was first used in connection with the 36 card Petit Lenormand deck a few years after her death no later than 1846. We now know that the deck was previously published as Das Spiel der Hoffnung c1799 by Bieling in Nuremberg, Germany, and that it was authored by Johann Kaspar Hechtel (1771-1799) of Nuremberg (see image of the cards on the British Museum website here).

Such cards are included in a listing of new German publications for the period 1841-1846 as follows:

"Wahrsagerin, die, Mlle. Lenormand. Erklärung des Kartenspiels d. berühmten Wahrsagerin Mlle. Lenormand in Paris. Herausgegeben v. deren Erben Chator. 32. (36 illumin. Karten u. Text) Coblenz 846, Reiff. In Etui."
Neues Bücher Lexicon (Weigel, 1848)
I'd searched myself for announcements of the Petit Lenormand, but I found nothing earlier than 1846. Now I'm puzzled about the "1841-46". Are there any new sources?
Lenormand was still alive in 1843. Generally it's assumed, that taking her name in advertising other products started after her death ... which seems logical. "1841" would contradict this.
The period 1841-1846 refers to the years of publication included in the Neues Bücher Lexicon by Weigel. The Lenormand reference publication date is listed as (1)846.

Re: German Lenormand 1846 / Spiel der Hoffnung 1799

#34
Helen wrote: The period 1841-1846 refers to the years of publication included in the Neues Bücher Lexicon by Weigel. The Lenormand reference publication date is listed as (1)846.
Ah, I understand. But it's confusing, just a google error, I would assume. It easily might mislead your readers. Likely something as "the first announcements were found for the year 1446" would do better.

I think, the earliest, which I found, was this ...
I checked books.google.com in this context and found advertisements, also of 1846 ...


Image

http://books.google.de/books?id=sEFDAAA ... 22&f=false
from Passau (Bavaria), early in February 1846


February 1846, that's early in the year ... as the production likely did need some time, it possibly leads to 1845. And the announcement contains the name Chator, which possibly also will lead to something ...

Your picture ...

Image


... includes "(not readable) Auflage" (means edition No. x), and the publisher name is "Rüb(not readable)" ... that's not "Reiff", which is variously confirmed. Who is Rüb?
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: German Lenormand 1846 / Spiel der Hoffnung 1799

#35
Huck wrote:Ah, I understand. But it's confusing, just a google error, I would assume. It easily might mislead your readers. Likely something as "the first announcements were found for the year 1446" would do better.
Thanks Huck, I have clarified it as follows:
Such cards with a publication date of 1846 are included in a listing of new German publications as follows:
Huck wrote:Who is Rüb?
"Verlag von JB Rühe, Hof-Buch- und Kunsthändler", I cannot find any further reference to this publisher online. As the booklet has exactly the same wording as the Reiff publication listing and they are both in Coblenz, it is my assumption that they are one and the same, somehow linked, or both published a version of the same deck.

Re: German Lenormand 1846 / Spiel der Hoffnung 1799

#37
Huck wrote:Reiff und Rühe is very different in German language and Reiff is "J. F. August Reiff" ... no, "same person" looks very unlikely.
I don't mean the same person, I mean the same publishing company.
Huck wrote:Do you feel sure about "Rühe" or might it be Rüb or Rübe? Rüb is a name in Koblenz?
Yes I am sure.

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