Re: Collection to Etteilla followers

#11
One other thing about Hisler: Ronald Decker, in his recent (2013) book The Esoteric Tarot, on p. 191f, says:
"Hisler" is likely to have been a nickname, a humorous one. In the prophetic Centuries by the seer Nostradamus (1503-1506), Germany someday would fall under the sway of a man named Hisler.
I cannot verify this particular prediction of Nostradamus, other than to observe that if true he was only off by one letter, very close to it in the alphabet.

Re: Collection to Etteilla followers

#12
Nostradamus' prophecy (Quatrain II,24) actually names Hister (not Hisler), the Latin name for the Danube -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hister

Bestes farouches de faim fluves tranner:
Plus part du camp encontre Hister sera,
En caige de fer le grand fera treisner,
Quand Rin enfant Germain observera.
[Nostradamus, Les Propheties, first printing 1555]

Beasts wild with hunger shall cross the rivers:
Most of the fighting shall be close by the Hister [Danube],
It shall result in the great one being dragged in an iron cage,
While the German shall be watching over the infant Rhine.
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Re: Collection to Etteilla followers

#14
mikeh wrote:Thanks, Ross. I don't know how you find these obscure things so quickly!
Added later: Well, a little googling and I perhaps see that it's not so hard. But are you sure that "Hisler" isn't in there somewhere? Well, I see the book is online. So I'll check.
Added later. Well, I searched all of http://www.sacred-texts.com/nos/. No Hisler.
I'm an old hand at occultism, that's all. I know all the perennially hot topics, and Nostradamus' "Hister" is one of them. I'm surprised that Decker got it wrong.
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Timeline on Etteilla's followers

#16
Ronald Decker's new book, The Esoteric Tarot (2013), has three chapters on Etteilla and his followers. Much of the information about the followers can be arranged as a time-line. I include information on Etteilla only as it directly relates to his followers. I give the page number in Decker's book as well as his source, when given. I have not checked the accuracy of his information, but it is consistent with what I remember from other sources.

1769-70. The Prussian national known only as Hisler studies with Etteilla in Paris. (Decker p. 191.)

1782. Etteilla publishes combination hislérique, Hisler's lotto system. (Decker p. 191.)

c. 1783. Charles Greille-Saint Leger de Bonrecueille (b. 1753) moves to Lyons and sets up a secret society known as the Temple of the Sun, whose members called themselves the "Unknown philosophers", following the lead of Louis-Claude de St. Martin (1743-1803), who referred to himself by the same term and had moved to Lyons in 1773. (Decker p. 191, from Robert Amadou, "Alchemie et Société Sécrète," L'Autre Monde, no. 98 (1985) pp. 24-29; no. 99 (1986) pp. 18-23, 57.)

1787. Melchior Montmignon d'Odoucet studies with Etteilla.

1788. Claude Hugand, a Lyons native, joins the Temple of the Sun; also joins Etteilla's group, Society of the Interpreters, founded that year. (Decker p. 191, from Amadou; on membership of the Society, Thierry Depaulis in Wicked Pack of Cards pp. 100-112.)

1788. Hisler visits Etteilla in Paris. (Decker p. 191.)

1788. Pierre Joseph Joubert de la Salette (1742-1833), in Grenoble, contacts Hugand and de Bonrecueille in Lyons, joins Etteilla's group. (Decker p. 192.)

1788. D'Odoucet becomes Etteilla's disciple. (Decker p. 192.)

1789. In Lyons Hugand writes a pamphlet Faites Mieux, J'y Consens, ou les Instructions d'Isis Divulguées par un Electeur de la Commune de Lyon, en l'Année 1789 (Do Better, I Agree, or the Instructions of Isis Revealed by a Voter of the Commune of Lyons, in the Year 1789). (Decker p. 191. For a translation and discussion of some of this pamphlet, see my post at http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php? ... tcount=251.)

1789. Etteilla in an advertisement of his work mentions that lessons are available from d'Odoucet as well as from himself. (Decker p. 192.)

1790. De la Salette joins the Temple of the Sun. Reveals its existence to Etteilla, for which he is reprimanded for breaking the vow of secrecy. (Decker p. 192, Amadou 26ff.)

1790. D'Odoucet publishes Revolution Francaise in Paris, which contains a footnote critical of Etteilla and Hugand, although not mentioning their names. Etteilla is judged a neglectful husband and father, as well as a charlatan. Hugand is declared unskilled. (Decker p. 197, from Wicked Pack of Cards pp. 103-104.)

1790, summer. Etteilla founds the Nouvelle Ecole de Magie (New School of Magic). In the Apperçu sur La Nouvelle Ecole de Magie (Prospectus on the New School of Magic), he calls d'Odoucet "Dodo", which Decker says is equivalent to the infantile "goo goo" in English and not the name of the famously stupid bird. Adds that d'Odoucet is "ungrateful" and "despising in tone". (Decker p. 196.)

1790. Etteilla publishes Cours Théorique et Pratique du Livre de Thot (Theoretical and Practical Course on the Book of Thoth). (Decker pp. 196-197.) This book is said to have gone unfinished; Decker refers us to Dummett, The Game of Tarot, p. 109. (Decker p. 291.)

1790. De Bonrecueille, Hugand, and de la Salette have all begun to compile interpretations of individual cards. De Bonrecueille writes de la Salette: "Brother Hugand has indeed received your epistle on the synonyms of the Book of Thoth, but according to the announcement made by Monsieur Etteilla, we had presumed that you had composed something more complete about it." (Decker p. 197, from Amadou, p. 20.)

1791. Etteilla dies on December 12. (Decker p. 198.)

1791, February. De Bonrecueille writes to Etteilla, "You will find here enclosed the manuscript of our estimable competitor Monsieur de la Salette. There are many synonyms [for individual Tarot cards] whose fortunate conjunctions I have admired. However, there are many others that I do not think are at their natural places. Either he is wrong or I am; but it is true that the work is very helpful, and--for fear it would not be printed--I made a copy of it." (Decker p. 213, from Wicked Pack, p. 110.)

1791. Hugand in Lyons publishes de la Salette's Dictionnaire Synonimique du Livre de Thot. (Decker p. 197.)

1791. De Bonrecueille, a government bureaucrat, is transferred from Lyons to Toulon. At his urging Hugand is now "first pilot" of the Temple of the Sun. In Lyons Hugand publishes a 12 page pamphlet entitled Cartomancie, ou l'Art de Développer la Chaine des Evénements de la Vie. Récreations Astrologique par le Livre de Thot (Cartomancy, or the Art of Developing the Succession of Life's Events: Astrological Recreation through the Book of Thoth. (Decker pp. 198-199.)

March 1792. De Bonreceuille reports that d'Odoucet has seized Etteilla's private papers and is usurping Etteilla's role. He is also selling Etteilla's merchandise, as evidenced by the 40 cards of the original first edition of Etteilla's Tarot that Thierry Depaulis owns, where on the Eight of Batons, Etteilla has obliterated the engraving and used a pen to insert his own name and address. (Decker p. 199, from Wicked Pack, p. 91.)

1792. Hugand moves to Paris and collaborates with d'Odoucet until 1794, running a small press with him. Hugand, like Etteilla, is a supporter of the Revolution. D'Odoucet is a Royalist. (Decker p. 199.)

1794. Hugand, under the name Jéjalel, publishes his Course Complet: Théorique et Pratique du Livre de Thot; no further information about Hugand after this publication (Decker p. 199). The book extends Etteilla's Cours Théorique et Pratique and unlike that one "is truly complete' (Decker p. 291 n20), It includes a list of synonyms (Decker p. 244). On p. 6 Hugand mentions that the Alexis from whom Etteilla learned about the Egyptian tarot was a "descendant" of the famous "Alexis Piémontese" (Decker, p. 191; his real name, Decker says, following Depaulis, Wicked Pack p. 272 n16, was Girolomo Ruscelli, 1520-1566). Hugand also says (p. 72 of his book) that the name Jéjalel is from a Table of the 72 Cabalist Angels in the Zodiacus Vitae of Palingenius, where it is number 40; this is in contrast to its usual number, Decker says (p. 215), which is 58; I myself have found no such Table in either the French or the Latin editions of Palingenius that appear online. For more on this book see the thread "Palingenio's Zodiacus Vita, 1535 Venice" at viewtopic.php?f=11&t=854)

1804 and after. D'Odoucet publishes the 3 volume Science des Signes: Médecine de l''Esprit (Science of Signs: Medicine for the Mind). Vol. 1 draws on Etteilla's Cours Theorique et Pratique. Vol. 2 condenses the Dictionnaire Synonimique. Vol. 3 does not include the tarot but discusses other matters occult and Masonic. Disappears from history in 1808 when the Prefect at Lille orders a warrant for his arrest. (Decker pp. 199-200.)

Re: theme JGSS: Collection to Etteilla followers

#17
(in work)

I renamed the thread "Collection to Etteilla followers" to "theme JGSS: Collection to Etteilla followers", cause meanwhile it is clear, that JGSS (= Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur) had been also a relative direct follower of Etteilla, cause he produced rather early Petit Etteilla decks beside his other Cartomancy decks ... see ...
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=774#p18580

I attempt to create a better overview about themes, which have used various threads.

********************

In this thread once I found (December 2015) a Petit Etteilla deck in British Museum:
http://tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=45 ... tcount=356
Object type print playing-card

Museum number: 1896,0501.715.1-32
Description: Incomplete piquet pack with 31 of 32 playing-cards for cartomancy (Etteilla), plus one extra card

Hand-coloured etching
Backs: plain
Circa 1789-1804
Producer name: Published by: St Sauveur
School/style: French
Date: 1800 (circa)
Production place: Paris(Europe,France,Ile-de-France (département),Paris)
Dimensions: Height: 78 millimetres Width: 54 millimetres

Each card has in its centre a representation of a smaller card surrounded by various words and numbers. The pack has one extra card with "No. 1 Etteilla ou le Questionant" which bears the address "Chez le Cen. (citoyen) St Sauveur, Rue Nicaise...a Paris".

Curator's comments: This pack is similar in character to 1896,0501.709. That it was made during the period surrounding the Revolutionary War is evident by St Sauveur's title of 'Citizen' .The missing card is the ace of diamonds.
Nr. 1896,0501.709 is clearly an Etteilla deck.
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/c ... 709&page=1

In the Dummett-Decker-Depaulis' work "A Wicked Pack of Cards" I found 2 footnotes (No. 62+65) to Saint-Sauveur (p. 274-75): Footnote 65 ...

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appeared in the context
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DDD wrote "1793 ?" in relation to the use of "citoyen" for St. Sauveur, but we found examples, that St. Sauveur was addressed as citoyen at least till 1798, so this evaluation doesn't count much.

MikeH. at http://tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=45 ... ostcount=3
... inside http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=250106
1796a. Saint-Sauveur publishes Europe. Tome I, per announcement at http://a-tarot.eu/p/2012/tarots/sauveur-5.jpg . The address of the author is given as “rue Nicaise, maison de la section des Tuileries”.
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https://books.google.de/books?id=UuJaAAAAQAAJ (IV 1795 in other source)
... gives Deroy as publisher, but doesn't give the author address. I saw a cooperation between Sauveur and Deroy already indicated for a work in 1794.
MikeH ...
In the same year is his Encylopedia des Voyages, at https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...auveur&f=false , at the same address, published by Deroy. It seems to be just about Asia.

1796b. L’Art de Tirer les Cartes, ou le Moyen de Lire dans l’Avenir (The art of reading the cards, or the means of reading into the future), with a treatise on interpreting dreams, and accompanied by a “jeu de cartes” (deck of cards), described in a 1796 review at https://books.google.co.uk/books/conten ... 068&edge=0.
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The referring book ...
Revue encyclopédique: ou Analyse raisonnée des productions les plus remarquables dans la littérature, les sciences et les arts
Revue encyclopédique, 1796
https://books.google.de/books?id=XXO2K0 ... navlinks_s
... has an an interest redactor, Aubin L. Millin, author of many volumes of a competent Dictionnaire des beaux-arts ...
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/millin1806bd2
It's interesting to observe, that this review got the last page in a work of 596 pages.

I detected the dictionary of 1806 recently, when I researched details of the Rothschild Tarocchi. Perhaps one may conclude, that the review was written by Millin himself?

MikeH ...
According to Depaulis (personal communication to Kwaw of 24 Dec. 2015) it is the same as the booklet published in 1791, except that the spelling “cartonomancie” has been changed to “cartomancie”. It is for use with a Petit Etteilla deck. No author given. Published by Deroy, at the address “librarie, rue du Cimitiere-Andre-des-Arts, no. 15”. The content as described in the review corresponds to that of the LWB that accompanies the current Petit Etteilla published by France Cartes.
Kwaw gave the an alarming message at 2015-12-24 here, at ...
http://tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=45 ... tcount=370
... in the context of ...
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p= ... ost4544308

Thierry Depaulis in private communication:
The first edition of Le Petit Oracle des Dames / Petit Etteilla was published in 1797 as:

Petit oracle des dames / Petit Etteilla, jeu de 42 cartes, avec livret Tableaux mobiles des jeux de fortune, ou l'Art de lire dans l'avenir avec sûreté par le rapprochement des événemens qui démontrent sans réplique l'art chronomancique. A Paris, Chez l'Auteur, rue Nicaise Nr. 513. An cinquième / 1797.
No publisher. (Two copies in private collections)
Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur is certainly the author.
The accompanying booklet hugely draws on Etteilla's "testament": Etteilla, ou l'art de lire dans les cartes, 1791, with the original cartonomancie being substituted for cartomancie.

...

Deroy seems to have taken over Grasset de Saint-Sauveur's publications. He remained Grasset's main publisher, but died in 1801.
His stock was dispersed; Gueffier clearly bought the rights for Le Petit Oracle des Dames.
As a consequence:
(here quoting the summarised timeline above that I sent to him)
1801, 13 April – Le Petit Oracle des Dames (chez boulevard Cerutti, No.21 (Gueffier) the rights of which are later (Mutations des Fonds - February
1823) acquired by M. Peytieux, libraire, passage du Caire, n.121, à Paris, from Gueffier jeune).

Gueffier jeune (i.e. Pierre-Charles-Augustin Gueffier, d. 1803/4), was succeeded by his widow, the Veuve Gueffier, who died in 1809 (a probate inventory is in our Archives Nationales), then by their son Gueffier jeune no. 2 (or Gueffier fils), who bought the remaining stock of Etteilla's books in 1817, as your rightly pointed out, and later (1823) sold Le Petit Oracle des Dames and Le Veritable Etteilla to Philippe-François Peytieux.
Some discussion later Kwaw added a communication from 2015-12-24 (post #377, same thread)
Correspondence from Thierry Depaulis (24th December, 2015)

quote:

Actually there are three (!) so-called 'Petit Etteilla'…

- 1) Etteilla's own 'Petit Etteilla', 33 cards (i.e. a 'piquet' pack + 1 card for 'Consultant', first edition 1791 (see Wicked Pack, p. 96 and pl. 5); these cards were reprinted many times during the 19th and the 20th centuries (notably by Grimaud), under this title ('Petit Etteilla'); a mere copy (or a re-issue?) of these cards appeared around 1797 under the name and signature of our dear friend "le citoyen Saint-Sauveur" (see Cary Coll., FRA 191; Les cartes de la Révolution 1989, n° 98)

- 2) 'Petit oracle des dames / Petit Etteilla' (both titles), later with "ou récréation du curieux" added, 42 cards, most double-headed, also issued by Grasset de Saint-Sauveur, "A Paris, Chez l'Auteur, rue Nicaise Nr. 513. An cinquième / 1797", re-issued as 'Petit oracle des dames, ou récréation du curieux' in 1799 ("A Paris, Chez l'Auteur, rue Coq-Héron, Maison de France ; Deroy, libraire, rue Hautefeuille, n° 34, an VIII de la Rép. fr. [1799-1800]"); and reprinted later under the same or variant titles, notably by Gueffier, his widow and his son

- 3) 'Nouvel Eteila [sic], ou le Petit nécromancien', also as 'Le Petit oracle des dames', 36 cards, single-headed, engraving and style rather late 18th C, but all copies known only by Robert (c.1820) and Mme Finet (c.1824).

end quote
The second footnote of DDD (65)refers to p. 97/98

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Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection to Etteilla followers ; theme JGSS

#20
Beautiful. Thanks, Steve.

I'm wondering about the "1788" date though; none of the text, except for a tiny subscript on the last (information) sheet, uses the medial s (long s). I could be wrong in this, it could be that some French presses started using the normal "s" everywhere already in the 1780s. I'll have to study it a bit more.

Whatever the case, they are old, late 18th century, and probably exactly as Etteilla intended them. It would be good for someone to print a coloured deck based on these - perhaps we could get a crowdfunded or kickstarter campaign going to do it. Etteilla - his cards at least - has a strong and growing following.
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