Re: collection Germany/Austria/Switzerland

31
Switzerland

Peter F. Kopp (1986)
Die drei ältesten Innerschweizer Kartenspiele und ihre Regeln
http://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view?v ... 39::364#25
Interesting ... but no note about Bern-1367, 3 Swiss card games

Peter F. Kopp (1977)
Basler Spielkartenfunde: Nachlese der Sommerausstellung 1976 im Kirschgarten-Ausstellung
Basler Zeitschrift für Geschichte und Altertumskunde, Volume 77 (1977)
http://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view?p ... :77::48#48
... summary in the John of Rheinfelden questions, pictures of old playing cards in Basel

Image

Basler Stadtbote (messenger of the city council in Basel) playing card c. 1470, oldest card of Basel
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: collection Germany/Austria/Switzerland

32
Thanks. These are jpg's, so downloadable as they stand. I will try to produce OCR versions of these articles so I can read them.

But before I do, is there any possibility that the Zeitschrift fur Schweizerische Archaeologie und Kunstgeschichte is available online for the 1970s, for Rosenfeld's article there (vol. 32, 1975, pp. 179-80) and Kopp's (vol. 30, 1973, pp. 130-45)?

Re: collection Germany/Austria/Switzerland

33
I gave them already. You can export the pdf to a word-file, at least in my version of Adobe.

Rosenfeld: Entgegnung
http://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view?v ... 2::366#189
The answer of Kopp in 1976 ...
"Zu den frühesten Spielkarten in der Schweiz : Erwiderung auf H. Rosenfelds Entgegnung. "
.... you find here:
http://www.e-periodica.ch/cntmng?pid=za ... 76:33::337
Another text of Kopp: Book-review
http://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view?p ... 0::397#397

ha,
I found Kopp's text of 1973
http://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view?p ... 0::142#142

... and here is the real text of the long searched 1367-document:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Kopp's text also contains a longer description of the JvR text of 1377.

Further texts by Peter F. Kopp:

"Flüßlis" - Vom politischen Spiel der Mächte zum Trinkspiel der Muotaler
http://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view?p ... 5::113#113


http://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view?p ... 5::113#113
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: collection Germany/Austria/Switzerland

34
Huck wrote: 24 May 2012, 16:29 All are difficult to date. A deck made by Lachapella is given to "perhaps 1715" and the deck of Laboisse is considered earlier. The figure of Printemps uses elements of a picture "Nicolas de Largillière: La belle Strasbourgeoise" (made in 1703; but the card uses uses not the big hat).
Image
Well - there is the ribbon laced front of the dress, but otherwise I don't see that it is particularly close - closer I think are some of his portraits of women as 'flora', for example:

The first I don't know the date, the second is dated 1690 in one source, and 1712 in another!?- some aspects are even closer to Laboisse if you flip the image horizontal:
Image
Image

Re: collection Germany/Austria/Switzerland

36
At ....
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=345&p=26259#p26259
.... the following text was written ....
The "Deutsches Zeitungsportal" with the webpage .... https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/ .... allows the search of specific keywords in a large collection of historical newspapers in Germany from 1671 to 1994.
One article with " Minchiate" ... only 1 result, and this is an article about playing card history (1907)
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... =Minchiate

Tarot keywords:
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... ery=tarock .... oldest is from 1764 - Tarock, totally 3138 results
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... uery=taroc .... oldest is from 1768 - Taroc, totally 304 results
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... uery=tarok .... oldest is from 1768 - Tarok, totally 1568 results
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... uery=tarot .... oldest is from 1784 - Tarot, totally 203 results
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... ry=Tarrock .... oldest in 1818 .... Tarrock, totally 241 results
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... ry=taroque .... oldest is from 1832 - Taroque, totally 6 results
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... ery=Tarrok .... oldest is from 1839 - Tarrok ,totally 143 results
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... ry=Tarocco ..... oldest is from 1840 - Tarocco, totally 5 results
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... y=Tarocchi .... oldest is from 1860 - Tarocchi, totally 26 results

Keyword Skat - Skat is the most famous German card game. One might expect, that Skat woud reach the highest number of all noted card games in the newspapers.
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothe ... query=Skat+
Skat has 52,348 results, however, some of these results are based on an error. The terminus "Stat" (in modern German "Staat", in English "state") in some versions is interpreted as "Skat" and this is definitely wrong. Especially "Schwäbischer Merkur, mit Schwäbischer Kronik und Handelszeitung : Süddeutsche Zeitung" is connected to this error and this probably 1339 times.
So one should suspect for this system, that it is not free of errors.
I move this collection to the thread "collection Germany/Austria/Switzerland"
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=821
It should be of some use there.
****************

The oldest of the results is part of a funny poem (1764) ....
from Seite 2:

Wie Gift soll ich die Spiele hassen,
Die Eingeweide meiner Cassen
Nie bey Tarock und Lomber lassen:
Wie gern geh ich das ein!
Doch wie ein Drach mein Geld bewachen,
Mein Zimmer mir zur Wüste machen,
Nie bey Musick und Weine lachen?
Das, Vetter, kann nicht seyn.
1764 Bonn: funny poem
1764 Bonn: funny note, that in a marriage the 3rd Tarock player is missing
1772 Gülich (= Jülich) "Tarock" is a name, "Hofcammerath Tarock von Würzburg"
1782 Köln (Cologne): "On trouve aussi chez la mème, des cartes fines à jouer, tant ordinaires que pour le Tarock; qu'il a recues en commission & qu'il laisser à prix très raisonnable." French report about cities in Germany.
1796 Badische Lande: "Berliner Spiel Almanach, enthaltend die neuste Anweißung zur gründlichen Erlernung des Wist, l'Hombre, Qusdrille, Quadrille, Tarock, Kaßino ic. v. J. Cäsar". Announcement for a teaching book to play card games.
1796 1796 1796 1796 (Karlsruhe, Badische Lande, Karlsruhe, Badische Lande): 4 times the same announcement as above
1797 Gülich (= Jülich): "Carl Wespin wohnhaft bei Frau Wittib Zanders auf dem Hundsrücken Lit L. A. 427. macht andurch bekannt, daß in seiner dahier neu errichteten Karten Fabrike, alle Gattungen Spielkarten, mit ein auch zwei Köpfen, sowohl in Tarock als kleinen, von geringer Sorte bis zur ganz Feinen in Kupferstich in den billigsten Preise» zu haben sind"
Carl Wespin has a playing card fabrication, and wishes to sell playing card decks.
Confirmation for Wespin: https://frauen-und-geschichte.de/websit ... 2306271620

Image

http://www.spielkarten-sammlung.de/seite%203.htm
mentioned by Kaplan II, p. 216
****************

The next "Tarock" appears in 1816(1),1818(1),1819(2),1821(2),1822(1),1826(1,)1829(1) etc.

1-100: 1764-1859
101-200: 1859-1884
201-300: 1884-1896
301-400: 1896-1902
401-500: 1902-1907
501-1000: 1907-1921 ... the 1000th note is about a successful racing horse with the name Tarock.
Huck
http://trionfi.com