Question French divination deck 1790 ; theme JGSS

#1
At
http://www.giochidelloca.it/storia/plock.pdf
is noted ...
Etteilla was the pseudonym of Jean-Baptiste Alliette (1738 – 1791), a French
occultist who was the first to popularise tarot divination to a wide audience.
This is a sheet of fortune telling cards using some of the imagery devised by
Etteilla. The pack here is a standard French piquet pack of 32 cards Ace,
King, Queen, Jack, 10, 9, 8, 7, of the usual four French suits but with four
extra Ettellia cards. Decker, Depaulis and Dummett (1996) refer to a 36 card
pack produced by Madame Finet in about 1800 under the title “le Petit
Oracle des Dames”, which is the same game. Depaulis (correspondence 18
June 2009) now dates the game slightly later, circa 1810, and notes that there
are suit signs. The game was included in the exhibition of 1989 “Les cartes
de la Révolution”, with the earlier date. Depaulis notes that the game draws
on another, earlier and somewhat mysterious set of cards, which he called
“Jeu politico-divinatoire” (n° 99 in the 1989 “Les cartes de la Révolution”
catalogue), which is in the BnF and bears the APR (“Avec Privilège du Roi”)
imprint so it must date from around 1790.

A very similar game was produced circa 1810 by Robert, see Decker, Depaulis and Dummett (1996). There are
copies of Mme Finet’s sheet in the Cary collection of playing cards (Yale
University Library). They are catalogued as FRA 194 and FRA sheet 176. I
am grateful to Thierry Depaulis for this information.
Any Info about this "somewhat mysterious deck of 1790"? I don't have this catalog of 1989.
Dummett, Decker and Depaulis in "Wicked Pack of cards", p. 144, note, that this deck had 66 cards.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Question French divination deck 1790

#2
The object was found ...
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1083

******************

(in work)

Last year around this time of the year we had a rather engaged discussion at Aeclectic. Major speakers were Kwaw, MikeH, myself and Philippe, who isn't active here. Philippe lived near Grenoble and knew its history, which was very important.
The discussion were hundreds of posts and distributed through various threads.
I'll attempt to reduce it here to some easy-to-handle results, which is not an easy task. So there is an ...

(in work)

... above, and you find not completed things in this post.

**********************

The topic were decks around the period 1790-1815 in France, as there are ...

1a. A revolutionary divination deck of 1790 (66 cards). It had been mentioned in DDD, I once searched for it in earlier research, but didn't find it. Kwaw found it and this started the discussion.
I later published the pictures also here:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1083&p=16598&hilit=1790#p16598
The deck had as last card a map, and the map guided us to conclude on an origin in a Grenoble cycle of important persons, somehow involving a ministre d'interieure Guignard, especially thanks to the arguments of Philippe. Some motifs of the deck had an influence on the pictures of the Petit Oracle des Dames.

Image


1b. A deck produced in Moscow in 1425 with 42 cards. The motifs are mostly identical to cards in the revolutionary divination deck of 1790.
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02370/d02370.htm

Image


***************

2. Petite Oracle des dames (also called POdD)
Thread: Petit Oracle des Dames, c. 1800
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=783
This was older discussion, which was revived 2015/2016. In the older discussion I already had claimed, that Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur should have been the producer of POdD, but it was ignored by most others. This was accepted in the later discussion. Sauveur was identified with the help of announcements in newspapers.
Thread: Possible author of Petit Oracle des Dames
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=824&p=11812

Image


******************

3. Variants of Petit Oracle des Dames

3a. A 36 cards deck in the British Museum. Kwaw named it Finet deck, other names seem to be Nouvel Etteilla ou le Petit Necromancien.





http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/c ... more-views

3b. A deck, which was reproduced in Germany in 2007, likely from 1797 and Saint-Sauveur

Image


3c. Other decks imitating the POdD
A deck fragment once in the possession of Stuart Kaplan (Kaplan I, p. 157)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=783#p11730
WWPCM
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02264/d02264d9.jpg
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks/d00290/d00290.htm

4. Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur decks of c. 1820, partly with motifs from the POdD, but mainly with of people from various countries. A 32 cards deck was given at the Metropolitan Museum, but the link to it has disappeared. A 52 cards deck was reported.
Reported here first at viewtopic.php?f=11&t=825

Image


Image


Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur was mainly known not as a playing card producer, but as author of books, mostly with the theme "people from various countries" with many illustrations,
https://www.google.de/search?q=Jacques+ ... cQ_AUIBigB

5. Petit Etteilla deck (33 cards), was announced in magazines c. 1795 by Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur. The British Museum has such a deck and relates it to Saint-Sauveur.


Discussion threads at aeclectic ...

Petit Oracles de les dames, c. 1807
(the theme of 2015/16 starts around p. 5 or post #45)
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=171379

Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur (1757 - 1810)
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=248670

Comparison JGSS deck 1797 (36 cards) with Finet deck
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=250771

Albert d'Alby (1802)
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=249006

Etteilla Timeline and Etteilla card Variants - background
(the theme starts around p. 33 or post #330)
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=122602&page=35

Etteilla and Variants Timeline II
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=250105

Grasset Saint Sauveur deck (? 1820)
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=249390

Nouvel Etteilla
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=248830

66-card divination deck c. 1790 France
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=248520

So-called "Jeu révolutionnaire" ... (by Philippe)
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=249766

Why did Eliphas Lévi link Le Mat with Shin? (contains some development of the theme in 2012; page 13-17)
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=169991&page=13
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Phaeded and 9 guests

cron