Maybe a 3/4 year ago I made some research about "framed stories" and between my objects was also Straparola's "Le piacevoli notti" ... in this work I was interrupted, and I noted now, that I don't find all my collected material, only some parts of it. That's a pity ...
Well, it's clear, that I didn't have the info, that a French translation was of relevance in the study, and that this translation included a note about "Tarots". So I became exited, when I realized during this work on "French Tarot dates", that one of the noted objects on Ross' list ...
1576. Paris. Tarot (Champenois (Straparola) ; MA 132) ... Ross
1574. Pierre de Larivey Champenois "ideo e pubblico un indovinello la cui soluzione era il gioco del Tarocco". (In Giovanni Francesco Straparola, Les facétieuses nuits. Paris, 1576). ... Marcos
... referred to the object of my earlier research. So I reacted with ...
I'm very interested in
"1574. Pierre de Larivey Champenois "ideo e pubblico un indovinello la cui soluzione era il gioco del Tarocco". (In Giovanni Francesco Straparola, Les facétieuses nuits. Paris, 1576). ... Marcos
1576. Paris. Tarot (Champenois (Straparola) ; MA 132) ... Ross"
In my earlier study (without knowledge of the "Tarots" appearance) I'd gained the impression, that the "story collection" structure of the Straparola text was based on a playing card deck, possibly Tarot or possibly something of the development of Tarot.
Michael noted from his earlier collection of Tarot fragments ...
In each of four stanzas, it appears that a trick is played in a different suit, and trump subjects appear to be playing the game. For example, the first stanza seems to be about a victorious warrior (the Triumphal Chariot?) losing a trick in Swords. (Moakley 51; Dummett, 202.) The last line appears to suggest that all the figures will be resurrected to die again, by rechef (re-shuffling?) for the next hand.
..., which I don't understand completely, that Dummett earlier also saw some relationship to a card game, though under other conditions, cause he knew about the Tarot note in the French edition. I only saw Straparola's text.
Well, Straparola wrote 75 stories, not 78. But Straparola had his own development. I remember, that I've read, that the first version only had 5 women, who told 5 stories in 5 nights. Then seems to have developed a 74-story in a scheme ...
12x5 stories in 12 nights plus 13 in the last 13th night (which would make 60+13 = 73) and the addition of a single story in the 8th night (if I remember correctly; which so got 6 instead of 5 stories).
This additional story is said to have been split in two stories, so that finally 75 stories formed the end ... but the author seems to have died soon after. Do we know, what he intended finally ? Naturally not. Perhaps he still was on his way to reach the 78th story. From the publications lists (worldcat) one can see, that the success became gigantic since 1550. The 5x5 (1541 ?) version seems to have been not very successful. I've read, that there was development in the text after 1550, I don't know to which degree structural elements were part of these changes.
In my earlier work I'd made this list on the base of an own research from an edition, which I don't remember (and I don't know, if I made errors) - and it was a "modern" text, I remember:
FIRST WOMEN GROUP
--------------------------
Lauretta
Alteria
Cateruzza
Eritrea
Arianna
SECOND WOMEN GROUP
-----------------------------
Ludovica
Vicenza
Lionora
Fiordiana
Isabella
In the nights 1-5 only GROUP 1 told the stories
night 6: GROUP 1 told the stories
night 7: GROUP 2 told the stories
night 8: GROUP 1 variant - Eritrea - Cateruzza -
Alteria - Arianna -
Alteria - Lauretta
night 9: GROUP 2 variant - Diana - Lionora - Isabella - Vicenza -
Ferier Beltramo (GROUP 2 variant)
night 10: GROUP 1
night 11: GROUP 2 Fiordiana-Lionora-Diana-Isabella-(Vicenza or
Diana)
night 12: GROUP 2
If this would be soccer game, I would say, that the nights 1-5 finished 5:0 for GROUP 1 and the nights 6-12 saw a 4:3 win for GROUP 2 (but this game saw partly exchanged players and in one case a person appeared twice)
The 13th night sees than 13 speakers, but only 4 of the common 10 women. WOMEN (2nd, 4-6-8-10-12-13) and MEN (1st 3-5-7-9-11) change in the role of the speaker, in the manner, that the men have the first word and the women the answer, and in the last scene a woman has the last word (which leads to a tie-break victory of 7:6 for women)
Ambassadore 13-1 MAN
Lady Lucrezia 13-2 WOMAN
Pietro Bembo 13-3 MAN
Signora Veronica 13-4 WOMAN
Bernard Capello 13-5 MAN
Signora Chiara 13-6 WOMAN
----------
Ferier Beltramo 13-7 MAN
Lauretta 13-8 -
group 1 WOMAN
Antonio Molina 13-9 MAN
Cateruzza 13-10 -
group 1 WOMAN
Benedetto Trivigiano 13-11 MAN
Isabella 13-12 -
group 2 WOMAN
-----------
Vicenza 13-13 -
group - 2 WOMAN
Ferier Beltramo is the only guest, who appears in both lists (nights 1-12 and finishing night 13; and between the 60 stories-group he's the only male speaker). Ferier Beltramo is the one, who speaks in night 13, fable 7 - and that's the place of the
Tarots note. [It seems, that in the French edition this figure is called "Bertrand" ... btw. I didn't check, if other French names also differ]
I can't exclude, that either my source or myself just through common error caused differences to lists generated by more serious research on real old editions.
And so it starts ...
http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/face ... proem.html
IN Milan, the capital of Lombardy, an ancient city abounding in graceful ladies, adorned with sumptuous palaces, and rich in all those things which are fitted to so magnificent a town, there resided Ottaviano Maria Sforza, Bishop-elect of Lodi, to whom by claim of heredity (Francesco Sforza, Duke of Milan, being dead) the sovereignty of the state rightfully belonged. But through the falling in of evil times, through bitter hatreds, through bloody battles, and through the never-ending vicissitudes of state affairs, he departed thence and betook himself secretly to Lodi with his daughter Lucretia, the wife of Giovanni Francesco Gonzaga, cousin of Federico, Marquis of Mantua, and there they abode some months. Long time had not passed before his kinsmen discovered his whereabouts, and began forthwith to annoy him; so the unhappy prince, finding himself still the object of their ill will, took with him what jewels and money he had about him, and withdrew with his daughter, who was already a widow, to Venice, where they found friendly reception from Ferier Beltramo, a noble gentle man of most benevolent nature, amiable and graceful, who with great courtesy gave them pressing invitation to take up their abode in his own house. But to share the home of another generally begets restraint, so the duke, after mature deliberation, resolved to depart and to find elsewhere a dwelling of his own. Wherefore, embarking one day with his daughter in a small vessel, he went to Murano, and having come there his eyes fell upon a marvellously beautiful palace which at that time stood empty. He entered it, and having taken note of its lovely position, its lofty halls, its superb loggias, its pleasant gardens filled with smiling flowers and rich in all sorts of fruit and blooming herbs, he found them all highly to his taste. Then he mounted the marble staircase and surveyed the magnificent hall, the exquisite chambers, and the balcony built over the water, which commanded a view of the whole place. The princess, captivated by the charm of the pleasant spot, besought her father so strongly with soft and tender speeches, that he to please her fancy hired the palace for their home. Over this she rejoiced greatly, for morning and evening she would go upon the balcony to watch the scaly fish which swam about in numerous shoals through the clear salt water, and in seeing them dart about now here now there she took the greatest delight. And because she was now forsaken by the ladies who had formerly been about her court, she chose in their places ten others as beautiful as they were good; indeed, time would fail wherein to describe their virtues and their graces.
Bishop Ottaviano was in the role to be the heir of Milan - which means the Sforza reign. But naturally he was to weak to oppose the stronger political interests of the time, when Francesco Sforza II died (October 24, 1535). As members of the Sforza family Ottaviano and his daughter Lucrezia naturally knew, how the Sforza played cards. Lucrezia had been married to a member of the Gonzaga family [Giovanni Francesco Gonzaga seems to have died 1523, if I got the identification correctly] .. also the Gonzaga had it with the Tarocchi cards.
Michael wrote:
mjhurst wrote:
Isn't that the Tarot riddle/sonnet we were talking about?
....
....
What other sonnets? Ones that don't have anything to do with Tarot?
I'm not sure what you're looking for ...
I'm interested to understand the complete context, not only just the Tarocchi poem. This naturally depends on my earlier research, about which you couldn't know, of course.
