Please help ... French Tarot dates 1500 - 1659

#1
We have at
http://trionfi.com/0/p/23/
some lists mainly to the French Tarot development. The list likely was made around 2005-2007 and it needs some updating and improvement. On this list Ross collected once the appearance of Tarot writing forms (which should essential lead to French documents).
A Survey of Spellings.

My list of occurrences of variations of "tarot" in documentary sources for the 16th and early 17th century shows that "tarots" was the preferred spelling over this time (date. place. spelling. (author. source(s))

1505. Avignon. Taraux (anonymous account-keeper; Chobaut, Depaulis)
1534. Lyon. Tarau (Rabelais (southerner) MA 131)
1553. Paris. Tarault (Estienne; MA 131)
c.1560. Paris. Tarot. Tarots (Neux, Depaulis (VxP); MA 131)
c.1560 Paris. Tarots (Christophe de Bordeaux; MA 132)
1564. ?. 1565. Lyon. Tarots (Ps.(?)-Rabelais; MA 132)
1576. Paris. Tarot (Champenois (Straparola) ; MA 132)
1578. Lyon. Tarots (Guil. des Autels; MA 132)
1579. Paris. Tarots (Ladurie; MA 132-3)
1579. Saint-André (Toulouse). Tarots (Garrisson-Estè be (1980); MA 133)
1583. Paris. Tarots (Tabourot; MA 133)
1583. Paris. Tarot (Gauchet; MA 133)
1583. Paris. Tarotz (Henri III; MA 133-4)
1585. Paris. Tarots (Perrache; MA 134)
1585. ?. Taraux (Cholières; MA 134)
1592. London. Tarots (Delamothe; MA 134)
1595. ?. Tarot (Le Poulchre; MA 134)
1607. Oxford. Taraux (Cleland; MA 134-5)
1622. Paris. Tarots (Garasse; MA 135)
1622. Lyon. Tarotz (D'Allemagne II, 246)
1637. Paris. Tarots (De Marolles)
1650. Lyon. Taros (D'Allemagne II, 258)
1659. Paris. Taros (Maison Academique des Jeux)

Totally 18 appearances are mentioned in 16th century:

9 Tarots
4 Tarot
2 Taraux
1 Tarau
1 Tarault
1 Tarotz

24 up to "Maison Academique":

11 Tarots
4 Tarot
3 Taraux
1 Tarau
1 Tarault
2 Tarotz
2 Taros

On Tarot packs for the 18-19th century, I can glean the following spellings from my few sources (letters refer to current borders, not necessarily accurate for historical purposes (B)Belgium; (D)Germany; (F)France; (I)Italy; (S)Switzerland) :

Taros (Héri, early 18th c., Soleure (S); K II, 318)
Tarots (Madenié, c. 1709, Dijon (F); K II, 315)
Taros (J.-P. Mayer, c.1730, Constance(D) ; TJM no.45 (p. 75), KII,
325; SSII, no.29 (p. 174))
Taros (Hautot, 1723-48, Rouen (F); K II, 323)
Taraut (Antoine Jar, 18th c., Bouvignes-sur- Meuse (B); K II, 329)
Taros (Thomasset, 1731, Murten (Morat)(S); K II, 319)
Taros (Laudier, 1746, Strasbourg (F); TJM no. 44 (p. 74))
Tarrau/Terrau (anon.,1755, Coppet (F or S); SS II, 21-22, 99 (cf.
Carrajat 1786)
Taraut (Dupont, 1766, Brussels (B); K II, 207)
Tareau (Ignaz Krebs, 18th c., Friburg im Bresgau; Piatnik repr.
1984, K II, 214)
Tarot (Paiche, 1780, Berne (S); K II, 334)
Taros (Rochus II Schaer, 1783, Mümliswil (S); SS II, no. 4 (p. 124))
Tarrau/Terrau (Carrajat, 1786, Chambéry(F)(engr. Milan?); K II,
210,335)
Taros (Hans Buolmann, l.18th c., Unterwalden( S); SS II, no. 31 (p.
178))
Taros (J.-B. II Benois, l.18th c., Strasbourg(F) ; SS II, no. 24 (p.
164))
Taros (Conrad Iseli, l. 18th c., Soleure (S); K II, 331)
Taraut (Galler, l. 18th c., Brussels (B); K I, 153)
Taros (Carey, 1793-1800, Strasbourg; TJM no. 47 (p. 76))
Taros (Ignace Crelier, 1791-1803, Porrentruy (S); D'Allemagne, I,
186)
Tarots (Jerger, e. 19th c., Besançon (F); TJM no.48 (pp.76-77); K
II, 211)
Taroques (Draghi, e. 19th c., Finale (I); K II, 220)

Constance (Konstanz) German-Swiss (incl. Strasbourg) -
Taros (10)
Tarot (1)

Freiburg im Breisgau
Tareau (1)

Rouen -
Taros (1)

Brussels (Bruxelles) close to Bouvignes -
Taraut (3)

Besançon-Dijon (close together) -
Tarots (2)

Italian with French titles -
Tarrau/Terrau ("terrau" is obviously an error; Carrajat's plates were earlier used, in 1755, by an anonymous cardmaker in Coppet (France or Switzerland) )
Taroques

The most common spelling in this brief survey is "Tarots", occuring both in texts and on cards, with 14 instances.
"Taros" has 13 occurences.
"Tarot" occurs 4 times.

Clearly the plural form was preferred for most of the time of the terms' usage, mirroring the Italian preference for "tarocchi" over "tarocco".

I wish I knew what preferential spellings Lyonnais cardmakers had for their cards or wrappers.
SOURCES

(D'Allemagne) H.-R. D'Allemagne, "Les cartes à jouer du XIVe au XXe siècle", Paris, 1906
(K) S. Kaplan, "Encyclopedia of Tarot" vols. I (1978) and II (1986)
(VxP) T. Depaulis, "Roger de Gaignières et ses tarots", _Le Vieux Papier_, fasc. 301 (July 1986) pp. 117-124; (TJM)
T. Depaulis, "Tarot: jeu et magie", Paris, 1984;
(MA) M. Dummett, "Il Mondo e l'Angelo", Napoli, Bibliopolis, 1993;
(Depaulis 2004) T. Depaulis, _Des "cartes communément appelées taraux"_, "The Playing Card" XXXII, 5 (2004), pp. 199-205, and XXXII, 6, pp. 244-249
(SSII) Schweizer Spielkarten 2, 2005)


This should be done better ... and filled with dates from more recent researches. My energy for this project reaches till 1659

I personally know about these reports, which are not on the list:

*******************************************************************************
New to the list

1527 and 1530: Notes of Philibert in Italy
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=747&p=10702&hilit=philibert#p10702

1538: an insecure note of Juan d'Alman at the French court
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=611&p=10638&hilit=alman#p10638

1599: Notes around Catelin Geoffroy in Lorraine
(see below)

1655: The physician of Louis XIV, Pierre Borel, dictionary, often reprinted
Image

http://books.google.com/books?id=sJBbAA ... ds&f=false

1657: Marolles Tarot Ballett
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=751&p=10705&hilit=marolles#p10705

**************************************************************


1599: Notes around Catelin Geoffroy in Lorraine

1.
Mémoires de la Société des sciences, lettres et arts de Nancy
By Société des sciences, lettres et arts de Nancy (1851)
http://books.google.com/books?id=mz9FAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA74
... after the selected texts are others, which also relate to playing card history

Image

Image


Image

Image




2.

Histoire des villes vieille et neuve de Nancy
By Jean Jacques Bouvier, also called Abbé Lionnais
This also reports about the Catelin Geoffroy notes from Lorraine, but the interesting part is, that this author takes it as necessary to explain his readers, what Tarot is. These cards, so the author, come from Allemands and Suisse. The book is from 1811, but it might have written earlier. A first publication of the author I found for 1767 (so the author might have been dead in 1811. He may have been contemporary to Gebelin, perhaps somebody finds better data.

http://books.google.com/books?id=byMTAA ... cy&f=false

Image

Image
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Please help ... French Tarot dates 1500 - 1659

#2
there is at least another form in Lyon late 16th. I quoted it elsewhere, "taroc",I found it in Charly Alverda's "trois figures hiéroglyphiques", himself quoting "les plaisants devis des suppôts du seigneur de la coquille", 1580
http://books.google.fr/books?id=XmQ7AAA ... oc&f=false
Image

Huck wrote:This should be done better ...
:-w
Thanks to Ross for the previous list, because creating it demands quite more work than only filling the blanks.

Bertrand

Re: Please help ... French Tarot dates 1500 - 1659

#3
Bertrand wrote:there is at least another form in Lyon late 16th. I quoted it elsewhere, "taroc",I found it in Charly Alverda's "trois figures hiéroglyphiques", himself quoting "les plaisants devis des suppôts du seigneur de la coquille", 1580
http://books.google.fr/books?id=XmQ7AAA ... oc&f=false
Image

Huck wrote:This should be done better ...
:-w
Thanks to Ross for the previous list, because creating it demands quite more work than only filling the blanks.

Bertrand
Nice ...
The seigneur de la Coquille seems to be pseudonym? At the same place are other short "poems", which also seem to refer to card playing.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coquille_%28typographie%29
... explains Coquille as "printing error"
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Please help ... French Tarot dates 1500 - 1659

#4
Hello,

"coquille" is a printer's slang word : if you omit a certain letter you get another (rude) word which means the male human gonad. This can happen when composing a page caracter by caracter.
"suppôt du seigneur de la coquille" is a double entendre sentence, there's no "seigneur de la coquille" per se - it is the printing industry - his suppôts ("minions") are the members of the confreries of printers.

These are not "other poems", it's the following of the same dialogue. It makes lots of allusion to tarot - for instance "il y a bien vingt ans passé que sans le huict on joue en France" means "In France for more than twenty years we've been playing without the eight " which clearly alludes to Justice, or "en ce jeu l'on veut que toujours le six sur tous ait plus de force" "in this game it is needed that always the six over ever other has more strength" here alluding to l'amoureux/l'amour.

The "devis" were played for a printers' parade around mardi gras.
This is a very interesting document for several reasons, not only because it shows that the trumps and their names were well known or because it testifies that tarot had been played for a pretty long period, but also because it is another indication of a relation between the corporations of printers and cardmakers ; that the circulation of the tarot and the cardmakers may be in some way linked to the printers is an hypothesis my friend Charly Alverda has been proposing and defending for several years, alas is seems his writings being focused on alchemy they somewhat didn't show up on the researchers radars.

Bertrand

Re: Please help ... French Tarot dates 1500 - 1659

#10
I found "Christophe de Bordeaux c. 1560" at the list of Ross

Chambrière a louer a tout faire
Sources: Chambrière a louer a tout faire
Christophe de Bordeaux
Paris, BnF fr. Rés. Ye 2025
Chambrière a louer a tout faire
Traduction par Madeleine Jeay
Lines 164 - 187
Que si Monsieur veut en sa place
Me retenir, que je ne face
Aussi bien qu'elle ce qu'il faut,
Soit pour coucher en bas, en haut,
Au grand lict, en la garde-robe,
Mettre bas cottillon et robe,
Cela vaut jà autant que fait. [Aiiijv]
S'il vient quelqu'un pour autre effect
Voir Monsieur pour jouër et rire
Aprés soupper, et se desduire,
J'ay cartes tarots et des prests ,
De toutes sortes propres et nets,
Pour jouër au jay , à la prime ,
Au flux , au pair , à la centaine ,
Au glic , ou bien au passe-dix ,
A la raffle ou maints estourdis
Laissent bien souvent de leurs plumes.
Puis suyvant les bonnes coustumes,
Celuy qui gaigne contente tout ;
Or c'est la que je tiens mon bout,
N'y espargnant point la chandelle
Pour esclairer celuy ou celle
Qui gaigne afin d'y avoir part.
Puis, sitost qu'ils ont fait depart,
Complete at http://tapor.mcmaster.ca/~hyperliste/te ... briere.xml

An English description is at ..
http://books.google.com/books?id=EbESph ... re&f=false
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 59 guests

cron