I agree with Ross, too, Marco. Temperance as Fame is a secondary use of the image.
However to be a secondary use, there has to be something in the meaning of the card to enable it to get that use. "Justice" can be put after "Judgment" because the last judgment is what in the last resort renders justice, so that the wicked are punished and the good rewarded. Temperance, by itself, can defeat death temporarily, in that it involves care of the physical body. But it often does not defeat death at all, e.g. in battle. And after death it certainly does not defeat, or "trump," death. Fame, however, does defeat death, as everyone knew from Petrarch. A move to reinterpret Temperance as Fame is a natural one. But it is not as natural as the move to reinterpret Justice as the result of the Last Judgment, because Temperance and Fame are different things.
Piscina's commentary on the card represents a way of explaining how Temperance amounts to the same thing as Fame. It stands for all the virtues, and practicing all the virtues gives one "long and immortal life." Piscina then slightly misquotes Petrarch, who just said "life," with no implication of immortality. Piscina probably has in mind fama as gloria.
It seems to me that Piscina's explanation is forced. He is trying to moralize Temperance coming after Death, and that is what he comes up with. Perhaps he has a card in front of him with "Fama" on it. If so, it would be suggest Petrarch to him. But Temperance is one virtue, not all of them. And even practicing all three virtues does not grant immortality, in the sense of saving from Hell. There is a host of sins, departures from other virtues, that can send one there; what is needed above all is Christ's Church. So it seems to me that this "Fama" card implies the sacraments, a reinterpretation aided by the "sol fama" banner. However some people, reading Piscina or thinking of it themselves, could also see it as "all the virtues" which in a pagan way leads to immortality.
I mention the alchemical interpretation only as an esoteric interpretation of that time, one that would not be the only or primary meaning when Temperance is card 14. We know from the Sola-Busca that alchemy was not foreign to at least one tarot, made for the few.
In this connection there are two other considerations. The only other early version of the card that I could find with the spelling "Atrempance" was the Anonymous Parisian. Here it is again (http://www.poker168.com/bwg/bwg_tl7.htm
Of this image Bertrand wrote
. The Paris deck is close but different with the Atrempance representing a woman pouring water - to temper a fire ? or maybe is she pouring oil ... or maybe is she making a quenching ("trempe" in french).
These interpretations keep the connection to "atrempance" but do not account for how her action might be a trumping of death. It seems to me that she might be pouring a cool liquid into a cauldron for heating, as in alchemy or cooking. There is something metallic on the ground to which the stream is directed, probably a container. The Catelin Geoffrey, Vieville, and the others later with "Atrempance" do have one on the ground. Perhaps a container on the ground was more common than not, also with flames or some other indication of heat (the flames might even be coming from the container). If so, then the meaning is transformation into something that defeats the destruction of the old substance.
Vievil's titles are not on the cards. but on the Ace of Coins and Two of Cups. This leads to my second consideration, with two interpretations. For Kaplan (II pp. 189, 307) the title corresponding to XIIII is "DAME." If so, the lady's identification with Temperance is thereby somewhat obscured.
This term "DAME" appears in a sentence that starts on the the Ace of Coins and continues on the 2 of Cups (images from http://membres.multimania.fr/tarobat/me ... eville.htm
SOIT CRYE ASONDE
TROMPE PAR TOVT
LE MONDE DE PAR
LE PAPEL A PAPESSE
RYCE LE SOLEIL
AFORCE QVY SOIT
I am mostly concerned with the part on top of the Ace of Coins. Some people read the last word of that part (end of the 5th line above) as "QVV." There is no such word as "quu." So some people (Ross, I think) take it as "que," But others (Kaplan) take it as "qui." I think it is probably "QVY" and thus "qui" or "who." The difference comes out when we compare translations.
Kaplan's translation (II, p. 307):
Holy Father, render me Justice (VII) by this Old Man
(XI Hermit), The Fool and The Juggler (I), The Lovers
(VI), of this lady (XIIII Temperance) who would shout
at the sound of the trumpet (XX Judgment) for all the
World (XXI) in the name of the Pope (V), The Popess
(II), The Emperor (IV), The Empress (III), The Sun
(XIX), (continuing on Two of Cups) The Moon (XVIII),
The Star (XVII) and Lightning (XVI) to take by Force
(IX) The Hanged Man (XII) to drag him (VIII The
Chariot?) to the Devil (XV).
Ross's translation (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=22381&page=2
HOLY FATHER DO
ME JUSTICE OF THIS
OLDSTER MA[T] AND BAGA[T]
THIS LADY LET
IT BE CRIED BY SOUND OF
THE WORLD ON PART OF
THE POPE THE POPESS
THE EMPEROR THE EMPR-
ESS THE SUN
THE MOON THE STARS
THE LIGHTNING TAKEN
AT FORCE LET HIM BE
HANGED & DRAGGED
TO THE DEVIL
RID ME OF THIS
OLD MAN, FOOL AND CHEAT,
THIS LADY -
LET IT BE ANNOUNCED BY THE SOUND OF
THE TRUMPET BY ALL
THE WORLD, BY
THE POPE, THE POPESS,
THE EMPEROR, THE EMPRESS
THE MOON, THE STARS,
THE LIGHTNING! TAKEN
AT FORCE, LET HIM BE
HANGED AND DRAGGED
TO THE DEVIL!
But as I see it, the whole phrase "QVV SOIT CRYE" means "who would let it be cried" and not either "who would shout" (Kaplan) or "let it be cried" (Ross). I would give a similar treatment of the unambiguous "QVY" that occurs later on: "who would let him be hanged" and not Ross's "let him be hanged (Kaplan is hopeless here). I am no expert on 16th-17th century French, so I would appreciate input from those who know it better (of whom several have contributed to this thread already). Whatever the correct translation, I think the "QUY" has to be included.
Except in relation to the two places I have indicated, I have no problems with Ross's translation. But the "do me justice" cannot be rendered "rid me" any more, if he wants justice on behalf of the old man. (Also, I would have said "trivial performer" instead of "cheat," as "bagat" is related to "bagatella" and the "Bagatino" of Carnival. I don't see anything morally reprehensible in the word "bagat," except possibly the foolishness of thinking one is more than the trivial being one is.)
In our current concerns, the question is, who is this "DAME" loved by the "VIELART" (http://membres.multimania.fr/tarobat/me ... lle/11.jpg
There are actually two possibilities. She could be Fortuna, as the person on top of card X with the stick (http://membres.multimania.fr/tarobat/me ... lle/10.jpg
), not otherwise mentioned in the sentence; or she could b e the lady on card XIIII (http://membres.multimania.fr/tarobat/me ... lle/14.jpg
). But the person on card X is probably male; it is usually shown as a monarch, and they are usually male. Also, I imagine an original Italian "Dama" as "Dama Fama," corresponding to the "FAMA" on XIIII. Finally, the Vielart at XI should be desiring something further on in the sequence; that would rule out X (unless the cutter has made both its number and that of Force, IX, backwards, which is possible but unlikely). So I agree with Kaplan and others that the "DAMA" mentioned on the Ace of Cups is probably the lady of trump XIIII.
Reading the word after "DAME" as "QUY," in "who would let it be cried," and likewise the unambiguous "QUY" later as "qui" of "who would let him be hanged," it is she who would have the Vielart of XI denounced and hanged. The sentence itself does not seem to me to advocate his being denounced and hanged. "Holy Father, do me justice" is spoken by the author, i.e. Vieville. It is possible that he is protesting the action that the lady would take and appealing to God for a kinder verdict. Even if I am wrong, it is clear that the Vielart loves the Dame and that someone finds this reprehensible. Whether the author thinks it is really reprehensible, is another matter. He may be speaking ironically.
The word "VIELART" is interesting because it has some similarity both to "Vievil" and "viel art," old art. The "old art" could be tarot card-making. So perhaps Vievil or card-making thinks he or it should have fame and not ignominy, for its love of beauty and truth.
And there is another "viel art" (or even "vile art"): alchemy, condemned by many as a heresy; but perhaps Vievil wants to say that this condemnation is undeserved. Alverda (p. 38) finds a quote which he thinks alchemically connects the Vielart with the Dame:
"Il voile la lumiere pour la reveler, et ce double mouvement s'accomplit par le desir venusien (...)C'est pourquoi Venus est l'aimee de Saturne." (Le Zodiaque, M. Senard.)
Here the Old Man is Saturn, and the Dame is Venus. I don't know an alchemical allegory in which Saturn veils his llight in order to reveal it, for amorous purposes. There is, to be sure, the famous Emblem XLII from Maier's Atalanta Fugiens
of an old man holding up a lantern so he can see the footsteps of a beautiful woman holding flowers and fruits. She is Nature, who will lead him to the elixir. But he is not portrayed as having amorous intentions toward her.
He also does not veil his light. Whether the Vievil Vielart veils his lantern, I don't know.
Looking up Venus in Jung, whom I take as knowledgeable about alchemy, I see on p. 304 of Mysterium Coniunctionis
Kunrath regards Venus as the anima vegetativa of sulphur...In the Arabic "Book of Krates" Venus is endowed with tincturing power... ..she holds the vessel from which quicksilver continually flows...
That last is particularly suggestive of the Vievil etc. Some people say that the flowing liquid in the Vievil is blue; I don't know that it matters.
There is also this (Jung p. 305):
Lastly, I would mention the king's daughter in the play in the Chymical Wedding, who was chosen as the bride but because of her coquetry was made captive by the King of the Moors. She agrees to be his concubine, and thus proves herself a regular meretrix. Rosencreutz's visit to the sleeping Venus shows that this two-faced goddess is somehow secretly connected with the opus.
The King of the Moors is of course black and thus representative of the black or saturnine stage. It also suggests the "veiled light" of Alverda's quote.
Jung also (footnote same page) quotes Dorn, who says,
"...you should direct your way to the south; so shall you obtain your desire in Cyprus, of which nothing more may be said."
Cyprus is of course the domain of Venus.
There is also Venus's beauty cream in Apuleius's "Tale of Cupid and Psyche," which Venus uses to renew her beauty. In the tale, she is running out and sends Psyche to Hades to fetch some from Persephone, with the priviso that she not try it herself. Needless to say, she does try a little, and it renders her comotose. But in the end, by arousing Cupid into action, it secures her immortality. I would expect that there was an alchemical interpretation of that episode, although I haven't read one.
The alchemist desires Venus and her elixir not only to increase life, but to restore his old vigor, i.e. to get his old powers of love back. The elixir, like a young bride, was sometimes seen as such a rejuvenator. But alas, Vieville's riddle might be saying (or Hooray, if Ross's reading is right), the young and vigorous ones only want him hanged.
I wish to emphasize, as Alverda does as well, that an alchemical reading for Vieville card XIIIi is only a subtext--a subtext at best, I would say, but one worth introducing here.