About the Domenico Messore notice of Maria SALETTI

#1
This thread was initiaded on Aeclectic Tarot forum :
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.ph ... ht=messore

Maria Saletti' s notice :
http://blog.libero.it/Lesto/commenti.ph ... &id=131548

"Chi era don Domenico Messore? Si chiede la curatrice.

La prima risposta consiste in notizie scarne, ma interessanti e di prima mano. Eccone un esempio.


(1)Nel 1454, don Domenico ha ricevuto da Leonello D’Este l’incarico di dirigere un laboratorio di pittura dei Tarocchi, le antiche carte da gioco miniate, e di fabbricarne egli stesso. La notizia è un’ulteriore conferma di quanto si sa, cioè che l’origine dei Tarocchi, ovvero le carte dei Trionfi, è legata agli ambienti cortigiani di Ferrara e di Milano.

(2)Ma ciò su cui si argomenta nell’esegesi è il prestigio dei Trionfi, la cui autorevolezza era tale da costituire un’eccezione rispetto ai pericoli spirituali che il gioco rappresentava, soprattutto per un ecclesiastico."


Note :Comments of Andrea VITALI

(*) About the Melianus d' Este journey.

The book is in the Classense Library and Andrea Vitali will soon cjeck the date of the journey.

(1)The following deduction from (a) to (b) by the author does not appear to be right :
:-?
(a) “Nel 1454, don Domenico ha ricevuto da Leonello D’Este l’incarico di dirigere un laboratorio di pittura dei Tarocchi, le antiche carte da gioco miniate, e di fabbricarne egli stesso.
(b)La notizia è un’ulteriore conferma di quanto si sa, cioè che l’origine dei Tarocchi, ovvero le carte dei Trionfi, è legata agli ambienti cortigiani di Ferrara e di Milano”.

(In 1454, Don Domenico has received from Leonello d’Este the task of running a painting workshop of Tarot, the ancient illuminated playing cards, and to manufacture them.
The news is further confirmation of what is known, that the origin of Tarot cards or the Triumphs, is linked to the environments courtiers of Ferrara and Milan).

Discussion :

If in Ferrara there was a workshop for illuminating tarot cards (a), is not right to assume from (a) that tarot cards were invented in Ferrara or Milan (b).

It should be instead said that the art of illuminating tarot cards may have been born in Ferrara, which is something different. Is the author of the book an expert on tarot or does the author say so what has read elsewhere?



(2)Much more interesting is this passage:

“Ma ciò su cui si argomenta nell’esegesi è il prestigio dei Trionfi, la cui autorevolezza era tale da costituire un’eccezione rispetto ai pericoli spirituali che il gioco rappresentava, soprattutto per un ecclesiastico".


(But what was considered in exegesis is the prestige of the Triumphs, whose authority was likely to be exceptions to the spiritual dangers that the game represented, especially for a clergyman).


Here it says that the game was dangerous for clergymen, but the Triumphs, because precisely contained an authoritative meaning, constituted an exception.

Very well ...
http://www.sgdl-auteurs.org/alain-bouge ... Biographie

Re: About the Domenico Messore notice of Maria SALETTI

#2
Hi Alain,

I got the book and posted the dates on the same thread at AT, here -
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php? ... stcount=31

Here it is:
I got the book. Here is the itinerary:


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/este/viaggio.jpg
(click for a larger version)

Itinerary

1440
9 May – Leave Ferrara
11 May – Arrive in Venice
Night of 12-13 May – Depart from Venice
14 May – Pola
- over two weeks here, sightseeing
1 June – Leave Pola
2 June – San Pietro
4 June – Zara
9 June – Corfù
11 June – Modone
13 June – Leave Modone
16 June – Rhodes
23 June – Leave Rhodes
26 June – Cerines
30 June – Nicosia
9 July – Famagosta
12 July – Leave Famagosta
13 July – Arrive in Beirut
17 July – Leave Beirut
19 July – Arrive in Damascus
- nearly two months here
16 September – Leave Damascus
21 September – Jerusalem
29 September – Leave Jerusalem for Egypt
29 September – Hebron
30 September – Gaza
1 October – Khan Yunis
1-2 October – Desert
2 October – Zacha and Al-Arish
3 October – Varsovalle and Massen (unidentified)
4 October – Oases
5 October – Bar Qatya to Gorrabi
6 October – Yessor (unidentified) to al-Salihiya
7 October – Al-Hatara to Eson
8 October – Balbis to Al-Khankah
9 October – Cairo
- over a month in Cairo
14 November – Leave Cairo
19 November – Rosetta
20 November – Alexandria
- over a month in Alexandria
30 December (approx.) – Leave Alexandria
1441
5-9 January – Modone
12-21 January – Corfù
21 January – Valona
24 January – Molunat
25 January – Lovišće
26 January – Lesina
27 January – Ficho
28-29 January – Zara
30 January – Selbo
31 January – Lugo
2 February – Poreč
3 February – Trieste
4 February - Venice
(The journey home was in difficult weather, which is why it took so long and harbored in so many different ports over short distances)

I don't know when they arrived back in Ferrara, but it should leave plenty of time for Bianca Maria to hear stories of their adventures.
Ross
Image

Re: About the Domenico Messore notice of Maria SALETTI

#3
BOUGEAREL Alain wrote: Discussion :

If in Ferrara there was a workshop for illuminating tarot cards (a), is not right to assume from (a) that tarot cards were invented in Ferrara or Milan (b).

It should be instead said that the art of illuminating tarot cards may have been born in Ferrara, which is something different. Is the author of the book an expert on tarot or does the author say so what has read elsewhere?
Beatrice Saletti studied in Ferrara and Lecce (doctorate, 2006). Her speciality appears to be Ferrarese history.

http://www.uniecampus.it/fileadmin/user ... ettere.pdf

She doesn't claim to be an expert on Tarot history. The two books she relies on, with their bibliographies, are Le carte di corte: I tarocchi (eds. Berti and Vitali, 1987), and Il Monde e l'Angelo (Dummett, 1993).

I don't think she is making a precise claim for date or place of invention, she just goes along with the consensus that a "courtly environment" is the most probable place. Arguing otherwise is a specialist's game.
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron