Re: The Pope with the donkey / "Oldest Tarot"
Posted: 25 Aug 2014, 21:29
I looked for the prophets ... difficult
I got for the prophets:
01 David
02 Daniel
03 Zacharias
04 Amos
05 Isaias ?
06 Jonas ?
07 Abakuk
08 Malachias
09 Balaam
10 Jeremias
11 Sophonias (= Zephanja)
12
13 Zachoris (? Zacharias ?)
14 Gedeon
15 Nabuchodnosor
16
17 Putiphar
18
19 Theodosp (? Theodosius)
20 Olybras (=Olybrius)
21 Morel ?
22 Moyses
23 Isaac
24 Abraham
25 Israliel ?
26
27 Samuel
28
29
30 Sawlin (Saul ?)
31
32 Joseph
I cannot read all names. From that, what I can read, the row is partly similar to that, what is used by the Fränkische Losbuch.
*************
In the next step I studied the second order as given by this page ...
In contrast to the other order as given by the row of the animals, as they are presented by the row of the pages in the book (as given in my post to this book, let's give it the name "order A"), this order ("order B") makes more sense.
Generally one can observe, that the 32 elements are parted in 3 basic groups: 12 normal zodiac signs, 12 birds (from which one, the Raven, gives a 13th zodiac sign) and 8 animals, which don't fly.
Here's my analysis:
More or less the 12 zodiac signs build a group of 12 (No. 3-15, I've marked them in light blue), only broken by the "donkey" (08, dark blue), which in the Fränkische Losorakel got a connection to the highest element (Pope). This intrusion by the pope-donkey causes, that one of the zodiac signs (11 of them are in the spheres of Saturn-Jupiter-Mars) drops down to the sphere of the Sun. This one is the Sagitarius, the Schutz or Schütze, in other words the hunter.
And a hunter is needed in the lower section of the arrangement, cause there a lot of animals, which might be hunted. Well, but let's first research of the begin and the construction of the zodiac in this system.
Saturn-Sphere: The first 2 signs are animals, which one doesn't meet in German forests, the camel and the parrot (01 + 02). Naturally they don't belong to the lower hunter's world. In the Fränkische Losbuch they have the position 17+18, so higher than all the zodiac signs (1-13) and higher than the follwing birds beside the parrot (14-17). In the order B they belong to the sphere of Saturn, together with 4 zodiac signs. The first zodiac sign is here 03 Taurus ... and we see the curious sensation, that the first 3 of this system ...
01 camel = gimel
02 parrot , a bird living in the house and in the parrot-house and house = beth
03 TAURUS = Ox = aleph
... somehow refer to the Hebrew alphabet. Curiously.
With 04 we've the usual old zodiac starting sign "LIBRA" (Babylon), and CANCER (05) (which somehow starts the planet row inside the zodiac with Cancer = moon) and ARIES (06), which starts the zodiac in modern times.
Then the Saturn sphere is finished.
Now one might observe, that Libra is the only sign in the zodiac with an artificial presentation, the other 11 signs are either at least a little bit humanoid (4 of them) or just animals (7 of them). Indeed this trivialand very old arrangement seems to be a key here in this lot book system:
04 Libra (artificial) ... Sphere of Saturn
09 Gemini (humanoid; man and woman united) ... Sphere of Jupiter
11 Aquarius (humanoid; man) ... Sphere of Mars
13 Virgo (humanoid; virgin, female) ... Sphere of Mars
15 Sagitarius (half humanoid, half animal, hunter) ... Sphere of Sun (as the single Zodiac sign of all, somehow moved by the donkey-pope)
Jupiter-Sphere (considered friendly): Gemini (09 =" Adam+Eve" in the interpretation of the Fränkische Losbuch) is accompanied by the pope donkey (08; well, they want marry, they need a priest), the "capricorn = unicorn" (07; symbol for innocence) and the Scorpio (10; interpreted as the viper in the paradise ?)
Mars-Sphere (considered more vital): Male Aquarius with much water meets female Virgo, which needs water. Pisces (opposite of Virgo, indication of Venus ?) and Leo (opposite of Aquarius) accompany the process. Somehow it seems, that Aquarius becomes a Leo, and Virgo gets a fish.
Sun-Sphere: Sagitarius (15), having been dropped from paradise gets falcon (17) and sparrowhawk (18) as helpers to hunt the most noble crane (16).
Venus-Sphere: 3 birds and another natural hunter, the fox, who likely gets only the cck, and not the Venus birds nightingale and pigeon.
Mercury-Sphere: 4 birds this time, as Mercury (with wings at his feet) is - somehow - also a bird. Special birds: The Raven as th 13th zodiac sign, the cuckoo, who tricks the other birds, the eagle, cause Mercury is the messeger of Zeus, and the owl, the king of the nights.
Moon-Sphere: Only one bird this time, the magpie-thief, but 5 animals with 4 legs: the goat, a dog, who can hunt the hare, a bear with chances to capture the stag.
**********
This "order B" looks like a plain story, not too complicated. The possible involvement of 3 Hebrew letters is "strange". But the other parts look easy. No deep involvement of very old astrology as in the Fränkische Losbuch.
"Order A" I don't understand for the moment. Maybe just a difference "by error" between writer and designer?
I got for the prophets:
01 David
02 Daniel
03 Zacharias
04 Amos
05 Isaias ?
06 Jonas ?
07 Abakuk
08 Malachias
09 Balaam
10 Jeremias
11 Sophonias (= Zephanja)
12
13 Zachoris (? Zacharias ?)
14 Gedeon
15 Nabuchodnosor
16
17 Putiphar
18
19 Theodosp (? Theodosius)
20 Olybras (=Olybrius)
21 Morel ?
22 Moyses
23 Isaac
24 Abraham
25 Israliel ?
26
27 Samuel
28
29
30 Sawlin (Saul ?)
31
32 Joseph
I cannot read all names. From that, what I can read, the row is partly similar to that, what is used by the Fränkische Losbuch.
*************
In the next step I studied the second order as given by this page ...
In contrast to the other order as given by the row of the animals, as they are presented by the row of the pages in the book (as given in my post to this book, let's give it the name "order A"), this order ("order B") makes more sense.
Generally one can observe, that the 32 elements are parted in 3 basic groups: 12 normal zodiac signs, 12 birds (from which one, the Raven, gives a 13th zodiac sign) and 8 animals, which don't fly.
Here's my analysis:
More or less the 12 zodiac signs build a group of 12 (No. 3-15, I've marked them in light blue), only broken by the "donkey" (08, dark blue), which in the Fränkische Losorakel got a connection to the highest element (Pope). This intrusion by the pope-donkey causes, that one of the zodiac signs (11 of them are in the spheres of Saturn-Jupiter-Mars) drops down to the sphere of the Sun. This one is the Sagitarius, the Schutz or Schütze, in other words the hunter.
And a hunter is needed in the lower section of the arrangement, cause there a lot of animals, which might be hunted. Well, but let's first research of the begin and the construction of the zodiac in this system.
Saturn-Sphere: The first 2 signs are animals, which one doesn't meet in German forests, the camel and the parrot (01 + 02). Naturally they don't belong to the lower hunter's world. In the Fränkische Losbuch they have the position 17+18, so higher than all the zodiac signs (1-13) and higher than the follwing birds beside the parrot (14-17). In the order B they belong to the sphere of Saturn, together with 4 zodiac signs. The first zodiac sign is here 03 Taurus ... and we see the curious sensation, that the first 3 of this system ...
01 camel = gimel
02 parrot , a bird living in the house and in the parrot-house and house = beth
03 TAURUS = Ox = aleph
... somehow refer to the Hebrew alphabet. Curiously.
With 04 we've the usual old zodiac starting sign "LIBRA" (Babylon), and CANCER (05) (which somehow starts the planet row inside the zodiac with Cancer = moon) and ARIES (06), which starts the zodiac in modern times.
Then the Saturn sphere is finished.
Now one might observe, that Libra is the only sign in the zodiac with an artificial presentation, the other 11 signs are either at least a little bit humanoid (4 of them) or just animals (7 of them). Indeed this trivialand very old arrangement seems to be a key here in this lot book system:
04 Libra (artificial) ... Sphere of Saturn
09 Gemini (humanoid; man and woman united) ... Sphere of Jupiter
11 Aquarius (humanoid; man) ... Sphere of Mars
13 Virgo (humanoid; virgin, female) ... Sphere of Mars
15 Sagitarius (half humanoid, half animal, hunter) ... Sphere of Sun (as the single Zodiac sign of all, somehow moved by the donkey-pope)
Jupiter-Sphere (considered friendly): Gemini (09 =" Adam+Eve" in the interpretation of the Fränkische Losbuch) is accompanied by the pope donkey (08; well, they want marry, they need a priest), the "capricorn = unicorn" (07; symbol for innocence) and the Scorpio (10; interpreted as the viper in the paradise ?)
Mars-Sphere (considered more vital): Male Aquarius with much water meets female Virgo, which needs water. Pisces (opposite of Virgo, indication of Venus ?) and Leo (opposite of Aquarius) accompany the process. Somehow it seems, that Aquarius becomes a Leo, and Virgo gets a fish.
Sun-Sphere: Sagitarius (15), having been dropped from paradise gets falcon (17) and sparrowhawk (18) as helpers to hunt the most noble crane (16).
Venus-Sphere: 3 birds and another natural hunter, the fox, who likely gets only the cck, and not the Venus birds nightingale and pigeon.
Mercury-Sphere: 4 birds this time, as Mercury (with wings at his feet) is - somehow - also a bird. Special birds: The Raven as th 13th zodiac sign, the cuckoo, who tricks the other birds, the eagle, cause Mercury is the messeger of Zeus, and the owl, the king of the nights.
Moon-Sphere: Only one bird this time, the magpie-thief, but 5 animals with 4 legs: the goat, a dog, who can hunt the hare, a bear with chances to capture the stag.
**********
This "order B" looks like a plain story, not too complicated. The possible involvement of 3 Hebrew letters is "strange". But the other parts look easy. No deep involvement of very old astrology as in the Fränkische Losbuch.
"Order A" I don't understand for the moment. Maybe just a difference "by error" between writer and designer?