Tarot History Forum

Its interest...

a) We have a very, very, quickly expansion of the cards... As you know:

1340 / 1354, Bohemia (¿?)...

and then 1371, Cataluña. 1377, Firenze. 1377, París. 1377, Siena... etcetera.

Well, maybe we can ask, how its possible the cards travel so fast?

Hi friends,

In La nascita del libro, by Lucien Lebvre and Henri-Jean Martin I read:

"Molti naypiers (cartai) son anche cenciaioli" (many card-markers are rag-merchant, the people who take rag to made paper), this means, people connected to the paper industry.

(based in R. Corraze, L'industrie du papier à Tolouse". Contribution à l'histoire de la papeterie en France, II. 1934. pp 95 ss)

And I read too

"Ma via via che si sviluppa un centro di produzione, i cenci diventano più rari e bisogna andarli a cercarli più lontano"

this means, the rag-merchant need travel far to find merchandise.

Do you think the quickly expansion of the cards and the cenciaioli are in relationship?

mmfilesi wrote:Its interest...

a) We have a very, very, quickly expansion of the cards... As you know:

1340 / 1354, Bohemia (¿?)...

and then 1371, Cataluña. 1377, Firenze. 1377, París. 1377, Siena... etcetera.

... ... between 1340 - 1370 are 30 years ... this isn't fast.

The development after 1377 is fast. This runs together with a general change in various countries.

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The "somehow central states" in 10 years

1376: England ... The Black Prince (heir) died (very important in England)
1377: England ... King Edward III dies after reigning 50 years
1378: Rome ... Pope Gregory XI died after being pope for 8 years. It follows a schism enduring till 1415
1378: Germany, Bohemia ... Emperor Charles IV dies after 32 years in his position
1378: Milan ... Galeazzo II Visconti of Pavia (Milan) died after 24 years reign with Bernabo ... Giangaleazzo follows
1379: Castilia (in Spain) ... Henry II, the bastard, died 1379, after 10 years reign
1379: Habsburg/Austria ... the reigning 2 rulers since 1365 divide their country (one of them is married to a Bernabo daughter)
1380: France .... French king Charles V died after 15 years reign and some more years as regent
1382: Hungary, Poland ... the long reigning Hungarian (since 1342) and Polish king (since 1370) died
1383: Brabant: Wencelas, duke of Brabant, occasionally regent for half-brother Emperor Charles IV, died after 31 years reign (from him is known, that he had playing cards at his court in the last years 1379-1383 ... first known "playing card court" with evidence)
1385: Milan ... Bernabo is captured (31 years ruling) and killed by Giangaleazzo

At nearly all "central states" a ruler change happened

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a little bit outside (outside of the 10 years or outside of the relevant regions)

1387: Aragon ... Peter IV the Ceremonious, reigning 51 years, died
1371/1404: duke of Burgundy changes in this years
1371/1390: Scotland changes in this years
1375/1387/1397: Denmark/Norwegia changes in this years
1364/1389: Sweden changes in this years
1367/1383/1385: Portugal changes in this years

From these only Aragon and Burgundy give the impression, that they might have been involved in playing card history

******************
This means, that in nearly all "somehow" relevant countries

It's a general law, that a long reigning king presents political stability and also some stability in the customs.
Also it's a general law, that a new reigning king causes political instability and some change in the customs.
Also it's a general observation in our work of analysis of playing card documents, that playing cards often appeared in connection to young rulers.

The observed "turning point in history" in this dimension (various thrones changed in short time) is very rare, especially when the reigning time before had been often rather long. It's especially dramatic in the years 1376-1380, when the changes in the very central England, Germany and France occured ... precisely in the first "big" playing card years.
Generally one death of one ruler causes in history often the death of another cause of some often unknown causal relations, often the destabilization jumps from one country to the other.
For instance: The abdication of Roman king Wencelas in 1400 surely has some relation to the condition, that a similar abdication happened before in 1399 in England for Richard II. Also the disappearance of one stabilizing factor (especially Emperor Charles IV) might have caused stress through many changes on the reigning heads of other countries. Or the death of the black prince (1376) might have caused the death of his father (1377). Pope Gregory I. might have gotten a premature death by too much trouble etc.. So somehow a chain of events might have been unconsciously triggered and we have difficulties to see the reason.

*****************

The age of the new rulers:

England: Richard II, 10 years old
Germany: Wencelas, co-regent with 14, alone reigning Roman king with 16
France: Charles VI, 10-11 years old

This are the "most central" states ... these new kings had partly even not the age of teenagers.

Hungary: Sigismondo by marriage to the King's daughter since 1387, then 19 years old
Castilia: John I, 21 years old
Milan: Giangaleazzo was 27 in 1378 and 35 in 1385
Brabant: the widow reigned till 1406

******************

In general playing card research I saw this factor never mentioned.

The destabilized states had troubles.

In Germany revolt the cities. It started already in the last years of Charles IV (1377; Charles wasn't able to punish them, but open war developed occasionally).
In England were social revolts ("Peasants' Revolt" in 1381).
In France we have revolts in Puy, Montpellier, Paris (the Maillotins), Rouen, the cities of Flanders, Amiens, Orleans, Reims and other French towns (1381-82).

In all this the new distributed playing cards (likely not in England, where gambling had been strongly prohibited).

In La nascita del libro, by Lucien Lebvre and Henri-Jean Martin I read:

"Molti naypiers (cartai) son anche cenciaioli" (many card-markers are rag-merchant, the people who take rag to made paper), this means, people connected to the paper industry.

(based in R. Corraze, L'industrie du papier à Tolouse". Contribution à l'histoire de la papeterie en France, II. 1934. pp 95 ss)

And I read too

"Ma via via che si sviluppa un centro di produzione, i cenci diventano più rari e bisogna andarli a cercarli più lontano"

this means, the rag-merchant need travel far to find merchandise.

Do you think the quickly expansion of the cards and the cenciaioli are in relationship?

Well organized paper traders didn't travel themselves to gather rag. But naturally this "organized somehow". Paper traders naturally had a good relation to paper users ... for instance universities. But naturally also to playing card producers. We have a document of 1427, in which a paper trader (cartaio) of Fabriano helps as referee in a conflict between a card producer and another somehow related man in Bologna. The same cartaio appears later in Padova in a university paper business.

We have a collection about early paper-mills at ...
http://trionfi.com/0/p/21/

The dates of playing cards in Bohemia 1340 and 1354 appear in the report of Hübsch, presented here ...
http://trionfi.com/0/p/95/

Do you have references for your notes (footnotes or something like this ... when? which document?) ?

Thanks for the development, Huck. Very interesting, as allways.

a)

The development after 1377 is fast.

Yes, yes, I want said since 1377.

b)

Do you have references for your notes (footnotes or something like this ... when? which document?) ?

Not yet. Only this: based in R. Corraze, L'industrie du papier à Tolouse". Contribution à l'histoire de la papeterie en France, II. 1934. pp 95 ss.

c)

We have a document of 1427, in which a paper trader (cartaio) of Fabriano helps as referee in a conflict between a card producer and another somehow related man in Bologna.

This texts of Lefebvre is interesting:

Così favoriti, gli affari delle cartiere di Fabriano non tardarono a prendere un enorme sviluppo. Gia nel 1354, il famoso giurista Bartolo fa menzione dell'attività di questa "nobile città" della marca d'Ancona, dove si producono le carti migliori; perché il bisogno di migliorare la qualità e la resa induce ben presto i fabbricanti di Fabriano a cercare perfezionamenti: non soltanto sono i primi a servirsi dei magli al posto della macina, ma migliorano anche i processi di collatura e sostituiscono le colle vegetali usati in Oriente, che davano alla carta un aspetto cotonoso, con gelatine e colle animali; e curano poi molto la satinatura, eseguita da operai specializzati [...].

Dalla seconda metà del secolo XIV, i cartai cominciano a sentirsi stretti a Fabriano; vanno a stabilirsi a Voltri, a Padova, a Treviso e a Genova; e creano ben presto altri due grandi centri, in Liguria nei pressi di Genova, e nella repubblica di Venezia intorno al lago di Garda. Intanto mercanti italiani, soratutto lombardi, s'incaricano di diffondere per tutta l'Europa la nuova merce. Il Briquet [Les filigranes, dictionnaire historique des marques de papier, 4 voll, Paris 1907. Pags: 67-71], nel suo mirabile studio sulle filigrane, nota, tra il 1362 e il 1386, la presenza di una carta con filigrana rappresentante un'aquila aureolata [Frabriano?????] non solo in Italia, ma anche in Spagna, in Francia, in Svizzera e persino in Olanda e in Belgio.Nello stesso periodo, verso il 1365, il diario di un cartaio di Fabriano, Lodovico di Ambrogio, ci rivela come egli smerciasse i suoi prodotti da Fano nelle Marche e da Perugia in Umbria. Da un porticciolo della costa toscana, Talamonte, faceva anche spedizioni a Venezia, e per Aigues-Mortes fino a Montpellier.

I don't understand this completely, but the paper production in Fabriano is claimed to be much earlier.

Occasionally 1264 is in the talking ... 1268 occasionally, but 1283 seems sure by documents.

http://www.museodellacarta.com/docs/lac ... rtiere.asp

Spain is said to be earlier. But Fabriano became noted for "very good paper".

Yes, yes ...

The interesting of this text is the commercial network of Fabriano.

Thanks for the link.

In German History books it's a rather fixed entry, that the first paper mill in Germany existed since 1390 near Nurremberg. Indeed this is a very well documented story, reported by the owner himself.

However, in the work on the article ...
http://trionfi.com/0/p/21/
... there are considerable doubts, if there weren't paper mills before, though, possibly on a lower level.

The following is from a common source, Wikipedia. It's about population, demography of Europe during the Middle Ages:

* 400–1000: stable at a low level.
* 1000–1250: population boom and expansion.
* 1250–1350: stable at a high level (with the exception of the Great Famine)
* 1350–1420: steep decline
* 1420–1470: stable at a low level.
* 1470–onward: slow expansion, gaining momentum in the early 16th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_demography

This is done a little careless, I would assume. Generally one can observe the feature, that crusades had much lower rates of participation in the course of 13th century, either according the condition, that a lot of the energy went towards the North East (Deutscher Ritter Orden), some internal activities (Albigensian) and towards Spain, but possibly also due to the condition, that the overpopulation generally had lost its peak. The period 1250 - 1350 might have been less stable as given by Wikipedia.
At least there is agreement, that there was a big downfall after 1348-50. This might have smitten the young paper industry. Less traffic, less trade, which should have accompanied the plague, might have caused less interests in paper and for small businesses this might have been the ruin.

For playing cards there's possibly the relation "Jews and playing cards" of some importance. Surely the East-Western trade saw always a stronger participation of Jews, which always bridged different cultures with "sure family connections". Jews have reportedly suffered especially in the years 1348-1350, not only cause the plague, but also persecution and killing. They disappeared at many locations, but not in Prague.

Well, we've no documents, that playing cards were persecuted, but Jews were - definitely.

Where gamblers do get their money from ... in the case of cases? From money-lenders. Jews were money-lenders. This underground market is naturally badly recorded ... no documents. With the loss of Jews also the documents disappeared, which would have proved the debts towards the Jews .. that was always an aspect of the persecutions.
At locations, which might have had playing cards "since recently" in c. 1350 they would likely have been in gambler circles mostly. Likely it was also at courts, which had generally an interest in "new inventions", but courts also hadn't an interest, that their occupations were always made public. This problem seems to have not existed in Prague (according Hübsch, cards were signified as as game skill and allowed), but might have existed elsewhere.

Jews had already disappeared in England since 1290. And England stayed more or less "free of playing cards" a much longer time than other regions.
Jews are known to have been good chess players always. Even till nowadays. Bobbie Fisher, who turned against Jews himself, was Jewish by birth. Kasparow has a Jewish father. Emanuel Lasker was.
Some more:
http://greatjews.net/chess.aspx

I've read an older legend, according which a Jewish boy, who was robbed by Christians and was educated in Christian manner, became pope. The Pope and his Jewish father met later, and the father recognized his son by a chess move, which he earlier taught him.

Jews had generally a far better education and intellectual training, already long before the playing card times. Reading abilities for them weren't so rare as in Christian communities.

Playing Card research without "Jewish question" is ... NONSENSE. ... But actually it is done in this way.