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A connection to Pisanello Artist?

1 by Lorredan
I cannot find out why the Artist Pisanello is not considered a candidate making the Cary-Yale Visconti.

http://rozcawley.typepad.com/autumn_cot ... ist/books/
Scroll down to article on Book found.
Kaplan mentions him as an artist amongst others- not a particular mention.

Is there certain idea that he is not the Artist?

Thank you
Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: A connection to Pisanello Artist?

3 by Lorredan
Hi mm!
Yes I do know the Lancelot manuscript. Thanks for the Link.I do think Tarot looks like Chivalric Romance.
I was just surprised to think that in 1935 it seems to have been thought that Pisanello was the Artist of the Cary-Yale. I did not think the book itself important (my link), just that it had been thought Pisanello painted it. Of course there are sketches by Pisanello that show similar style.
I could not find any corroborating evidence to support the idea that Pisanello was everconsidered.
http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/hi ... men_s.aspx
~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: A connection to Pisanello Artist?

4 by Lorredan
Well indeed if you search long enough you find interesting answers.

In 1935 Carlo Visconti di Modrone had a boutique in Paris called the Italian Boutique and had an exhibition of the famous Maria Monaci Gallenga fabric and textiles(Business partner). Gallenga had a passion for copying fabrics from the 1300's in Lucca Italy, and Renaissance fabrics from Milan 1400/1500's. His work was very well known and there were earlier exhibitions in America in the 1920/1930's.His fabrics are held at museums throughout the world.

The Cary-Yale cards were owned or belonged to the Visconti di Modrone family (possibly Lucciano) and it looks like the cards may have been on display. They were not bought from the Modrone family by Melbert B Cary until 1947; later bequeathed to the Yale university rare Books etc.(The Bienecke).
So it might be that the Original owners of the cards may have believed that they were painted by Pisanello.
If you search Gallenga, you will see the fabrics and clothing that does look like the fabrics of the Visconti cards.

~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: A connection to Pisanello Artist?

5 by Lorredan
Some sites call Gallenga 'Him' and some sites say 'her' as it is fashion I will take a punt and call Gallenga 'Her' Maria in Italian is often a male's name.
It is interesting that the Gallenga name is a noble name from Piedmont and fought against the House of Savoy.
~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: A connection to Pisanello Artist?

6 by cadla
Lorredan wrote: If you search Gallenga, you will see the fabrics and clothing that does look like the fabrics of the Visconti cards.
I don't particularly see the Pisanello tie-in. That's seems fairly biased/associative on your part for me, since there is no evidence and no one mentions him. Much like our day, design is fairly generalized once a design trend starts.

However, he was a miniaturist, and loved depicting courtly love and stories. It doesn't seem to be his medium though does it? He also did metalwork, I can't imagine him leaping at the chance to paint cards. It's an interesting suggestion, but I'm still not sure why anyone you mention "might" have thought Pisanello painted the cards since there is no mention of that.

I loved some of the work I saw by Maria Gallenga. Case in point--her work is very reminiscent of the general trend of Art Nouveau years for Medieval and Renaissance pattern, or patterns that evoked those times. William Morris set a trend which she took it up decades later, in turn being influenced by designs she liked from that time.

Influence in art is very common, that's how they used to train people and still do, by copying the work of others.

Yours is a slender thread but interesting!

Re: A connection to Pisanello Artist?

7 by Lorredan
Hi Cadla!
I do not think the cards were painted by Pisanello- I just wondered why the lady who painted some cards and stuck them in the book by Pisanello and said they were by Pisanello, and even would have thought that.
Mary Jones wrote in pencil on the page
Paris June 16th '35
Peter or Petit Patois
Services de jour Tarot
par Les Visconti di Milano par Vitore Pisanello 1428
Exposition .......Italiano

The Mary Jones who wrote that, got that information from somewhere.
I was not making an argument for Pisanello, just curious why a person would have that argument?
The colour in Vogue via Gallenga was orange for 1935.

So you mistook my slender argument. I never suggested that I thought the cards were by Pisanello- just that someone did. That Exposition was held by Carlo Visconti.
~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: A connection to Pisanello Artist?

8 by Lorredan
Luchino Visconti di Modrone, Count of Lonate Pozzolo (2 November 1906 - 17 March 1976) was an Italian theater, opera and cinema director, as well as a screenwriter. It appears his brother was the Carlo of the Exposition.

Luchino became friends with Coco Chanel and was her wardrobe adviser for a time, he was also involved with the purchase of fabrics for the La Scala in Milan. To fund his film making endeavors he sold family jewelery in 1940, but earlier had attempted to sell a manuscript that was purported to be one previously unknown by Guiseppe Verdi. Some sales had been attempted of manuscripts again purported to belong to Petrarch, but were once again denied by Museums as they had 100 years earlier, as not genuine.

It would seem to me, that it would have been a coup to have some miniatures by Pisanello, rather than some unknown (in general) Bonifacio Bembo. Indeed these cards were in a private collection- so the only place they might have been seen, was if they were exhibited by the Visconti family- who were known as Visconti di Modrone by this time. The Mary Jones who saw the the cards as she obviously copied them, would not have got her information from a museum, but from the exposition. So perhaps the cards were for sale in 1935 as indeed they were sold in 1947, just before Luchino made/ wrote and directed La Terra Trema (The Earth Trembles), launched in 1948. He continued to sell artifacts of the Visconti to fund his films.
So it may seem that saying they were by Pisanello was a sales pitch?
So was the date 1428 a sales pitch as well? To say they were later might have made them Sforza Cards- and not his illustrious forebears.
Or was that date known to the Visconti for the Cary Yale, but not the artist?
Or was it assumed by family Visconti that they were Pisanello's work? Or was it a Hoax?

~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: A connection to Pisanello Artist?

9 by Lorredan
Family Visconti di Modrone: history and characters
The Visconti di Modrone descended in direct line from those Visconti who alternated in power on the scene in Milan from 1287 until 1447.
The success smiled above the military tribes, rich estates in the countryside but related to city life, this was the case of the Visconti in Milan, the Malatesta in Rimini, the Scala family in Verona, the Gonzaga in Mantua and the Medici in Florence, only mention the most famous examples.
This title was later confirmed to the descendants later, and a diploma in 1541, drawn up by order of Emperor Charles V, is mentioned Giovanni Battista Visconti, Count of Lonate Pozzolo.
The estate of Lonate Quickly added properties Sum of Corgeno, Sesana, Mezzana Arsal, Casorate, Vergiate, Crugnola, Morningside, Golasecca and Crenna.
Towards the end of 1600 the Counts of Lonate were also awarded the title of Marquis, all as a result of the marriage union, which took place in 1683 between Nicholas and Teresa Maria Visconti Modrone Pirovano.
Teresa, however, bring a dowry to the Visconti family not just a new title of nobility, but also extensive property until then belonged to his family.
Among these, including the castle and all the possessions of Cassago linked to it, so it was that the Visconti made their appearance on the scene cassaghese.
In addition, another direct result of that marriage was the change of name (onomastics) of the House from that time on the family name is no longer simply Visconti, but Visconti di Modrone.
1813, however, is the request by the family, for granting the title of Duke in that period because, at the behest of the then Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte, the constitutional status of the Kingdom of Italy established a new aristocracy of appointment- unusual practice: besides the fact Visconti di Modrone, obtained to be elevated to the ducal also noble families Lombard Melzi, Serbelloni e Litta. Melzi, Serbelloni and Litta.

The first family member to bear the new title was Duke Charles Visconti di Modrone.

Finally in 1837, failed Duke Charles no direct descendants, securities and property were transferred to his nephew, Hubert, the younger branch.

Subsequently, since the second half of the 1800, the Visconti di Modrone will often lead in different activities, such as the textile industry, (From 1865 until late today), politics (the family had three senators of the then Kingdom of Italy), art (important contributions in the management and preservation of the Teatro alla Scala) (Giuseppe Visconti di Modrone is a founding member and later President of the International Football Club).

Finally, it is particular mention a family member who through their works made famous Italian cinema in the world: the great director Luchino Visconti di Modrone, author of such masterpieces as "The earth trembles," "Rocco and His Brothers" and "The Leopard".
Sajopp Organisation.
Babel Translated :-s

~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: A connection to Pisanello Artist?

10 by cadla
Do you ever watch the Antiques Roadshow? Very often on that program, someone will bring in an item that has a history in the family, and they discover that the family had the wrong information, particularly about where something originated from.

I don't think these things are deliberate hoaxes, but just another example of oral history passing down incorrectly in families. A bit like the game "Chinese Whispers" or as they call it in North America "Telephone," where one person says something to another and then you whisper it to the next person and so on down the line and then you see what it becomes at the end, which is usually a sentence so humorously different from the initial one that it's delightful.
So you mistook my slender argument.
My "slender thread" comment was a reference to a movie with Sidney Poitier where a woman calls in at a crisis centre threatening to commit suicide and how Sidney tries to track her down. The slender thread is about keeping her on the phone talking until they can trace her.

Unfortunately, I forgot that not everyone would get this reference to "Telephone" and the game. My fault for being obscure and vague.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_whispers
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