Collection to "De remediis utriusque fortunae"

#1
Well,
I always desired to gather some basic info to "De remediis utriusque fortunae" and what it is about.

Thanks to a link of Ross I found the following passage, which attempts to describe the plot:

"Petrarch's Remedies, for Fortunes Fair and Foul"
Trans. Conrad H. Rawski
http://books.google.com/books?id=EspxOa ... q=&f=false

The passage is at p. xxiii
Image


That's a sort of "plot at the beginning", 2 sisters have four children.

Children of Prosperity
Gaudium - Joy
Spes sive Cupiditas - Hope or Desire

Children of Adversity
Dolor - Sorrow
Metus - Fear


And that are ... tatata (the trum) ... trötrö (that was the triumphal trumpet)

"Four passions of the lady soul
they have forty cards in this game ...
... Love, Hope, Jealousy, and Fear
are the passions, and a tercet have the cards,
in order not to leave, who plays, in error."


:clapping
... .-) ... well, one has to make something unusual, that the people wake up a little bit.

THAT's the origin of parts of the Boiardo poem.

Each intellectual of 15th century probably would have discovered it immediately (it's said, that this text was very popular), but we're so far off, that we need years for it.

Love = Gaudeum, Joy
Hope = Spes, Hope
Jealousy = Dolor, Sorrow
Fear = Metus, Fear

Ross, Marco ... I need help here

This work has a specific quality, it has two books and ...

book 1 is given as having 122 chapters
it seems, that Gaudere is second speaker till chapter 108 ###(later addition: sorry, I wrote first 103, but was an error) ###, then Spes takes its role

book 2 is given as having 132 chapters
it seems, that only Dolor speaks as second speaker, Metus seems to have no words

here is the content:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Q8oGAA ... is&f=false

and the addition of

1+3+5+7+9+11+13+15+17+19+21 = 121

and the addition of

2+4+6+8+10+12+14+16+18+20+22 = 132

The combination 121/132 is one step beside the real arrangement of 122/132 ... the difference might be the result of a later error, or perhaps, that the introduction wasn't counted or whatever. I've greater confidence, that this game with the number 22 is not the result of an accident, Petrarca composed such number elements likely with great care. His Canzonieri to Laura are 366, likely one for each day.

So possibly Petrarca composed something with a 22 into this work ... the question is what and how. If the number idea is correct, he composed it in alternating pairs, 11 good and 11 bad (likely, 1 opposes 2, 3 opposes 4 etc.), similar to the Boiardo arrangement of the 22 trumps.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection to "De remediis utriusque fortunae"

#2
These are well known divisions of the passions Huck.

The four classical passions of joy, sorrow, hope and fear do not originate with petrarch, they are the four primary passions of Stoic philosophy and can be found for example in Cicero. They were a popular theme of the italian renaissance.

quote
"The most popular foundational set includes four: joy, sorrow, hope, and fear. Although the earliest reference to these four is by Plato (Laches, 191C), Zeno of Citium and the Stoics are attributed with developing a theory of the passions based on these. The fullest surviving account of the Stoic theory is given by Cicero in his Tusculan Disputations. In Cicero's discussion, the four most primitive passions are joy (laetitia), grief (aegritudo), desire (cupiditas or libido), and fear (metus). Joy and desire are the result of good circumstances whereas grief and fear are the result of evil. Further, joy and grief result when a circumstance or object is actually present, in contrast to desire and fear which arise when one anticipates a future circumstance. The division is as follows:

___________Good Object_____Evil Object

Present_____joy____________grief

Anticipated__desire_________fear

In Roman and medieval philosophy, the Stoic division of the passions was widely endorsed by writers such as Virgil, Augustine, and Boethius."

end quote from:
http://www.utm.edu/staff/jfieser/vita/r ... assion.htm

If you want a '22" figure, then Augustine's City of God is in 22 books (in allusion to the symbolism of the 22 books of the OT in the Alexandrine canon and their being 22 hebrew letters), wherein Augustine paraphrases Cicero:


Recta itaque voluntas est bonus amor et voluntas peruersa malus amor. Amor ergo inhians habere quod amatur, cupiditas est, id autem habens eoque fruens laetitia; fugiens quod ei adversatur, timor est, idque si acciderit sentiens tristitia est. Proinde mala sunt ista, si malus amor est; bona, si bonus.

The right will is, therefore, well-directed love, and the wrong will is ill-directed love. Love, then, yearning to have what is loved, is desire; and having and enjoying it, is joy; fleeing what is opposed to it, it is fear; and feeling what is opposed to it, when it has befallen it, it is sadness. Now these motions are evil if the love is evil; good if the love is good.(City of God* 14.7).


The two types of love in Augustine, as marking two types of citizen, I have already mentioned elsewhere in relation to the Tarot de Marseille pattern.

SteveM
*trans. Marcus Dods.
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Collection to "De remediis utriusque fortunae"

#3
SteveM wrote:The four classical passions of joy, sorrow, hope and fear do not originate with petrarch, they are the four primary passions of Stoic philosophy and can be found for example in Cicero. They were a popular theme of the italian renaissance. If you want a '22" figure, then Augustine's City of God is in 22 books (in allusion to the symbolism of the 22 books of the OT in the Alexandrine canon and their being 22 hebrew letters), wherein Augustine paraphrases Cicero:

Love, then, yearning to have what is loved, is desire; and having and enjoying it, is joy; fleeing what is opposed to it, it is fear; and feeling what is opposed to it, when it has befallen it, it is sadness. (City of God* 14.7).


I
Jerome, who also of course a source on the symbolism of the number 22 in relation to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet and the number of books in the Alexandrine canon, also discusses the four primary Stoic passions and how virtue must be exercised to overcome the passions that lead to vice.

quote
"Quoting Virgil he names the four standard Stoic passions: pleasure (laetitia, gaudium), pain (dolor, aegritudo), fear (timor, metus), and desire (desiderium, cupiditas, spes)."
end quote from:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K4jF ... EQ6AEwAg#v
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Collection to "De remediis utriusque fortunae"

#4
SteveM wrote:
SteveM wrote: Jerome, who also of course a source on the symbolism of the number 22 in relation to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet and the number of books in the Alexandrine canon...
In Rabbinic tradition the number of canonical books is twenty-four, five in the Torah, eight in the Nevi’im and eleven in the Kethuvim. From the initials of this three-fold division of the canon comes the Hebrew word for the Bible, Tanakh. In another tradition however, the canon is composed of 22 books divided into four categories, Torah, Histories, Wisdom and Prophets. In the Septaguint Ruth follows Judges and Lamentations follows Jeremiah, and the two smaller books in some traditions are considered as appendices to those they follow, giving 22 books. The four part twenty-two book arrangement has been called the Alexandrian canon. The Jewish historian Josephus, 1st century c.e., refers to 22 biblical books in ‘Against Apion’ 1.42. It is also refered to by several early church fathers and is reflected in the arrangement of the earliest complete Septaguint manuscripts c.4th century c.e. ["The Jewish Study Bible", Oxford University Press 1985].

The canon of 22 books corresponds to the number of letters in the Hebrew alphabet and early on the rule of number symbolism that seeks to find correspondences between groups of equal parts can be seen in action. St. Jerome [c.347-420] in ‘On the books of Samuel and Malachi’ wrote, "As there are twenty-two letters through which, in Hebrew, we write whatever we have to say, and the range of the human voice is defined by their intrinsic sounds, so too there are reckoned 22 books by whose words and principles the still weak and dependent infancy of the righteous man is nourished by the teachings of God." In 1531 Cornelius Agrippa in his ‘Occult Philosophy’ wrote "Twenty-two signifies the fullness of wisdom, and so many are the characters of the Hebrew alphabet, and so many books does the Old Testament contain." [Decker, R. "Art and Arcana" 2004]

In medieval number symbolism twenty-two through its association with the bible and the Hebrew alphabet was a number symbolising completion and the sum knowledge of wisdom, especially in regard to holy teachings. Account of such played a part in Augustine’s division of the City of God into twenty-two chapters, and probably played a part to in the late Christian division of St. John’s revelations On which for example see Ross's post here:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php? ... stcount=82.

SteveM
Above copied from first few paragraphs of post here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php? ... stcount=18
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Collection to "De remediis utriusque fortunae"

#5
Thanks Steven,

especially for the hint, that Stoic philosophy contained a passions system similar to that, what was used a. by Petrarca and b. by Boiardo, I personally wasn't aware of this older system manifestation ... and I don't remember, that in the discussions around the Boiardo poem this observation ever was done.

For the general "22", there is no doubt, that it existed before and was used in specific correlations as for instance the structure of the bible.
But ...

the addition of
1+3+5+7+9+11+13+15+17+19+21 = 121
and the addition of
2+4+6+8+10+12+14+16+18+20+22 = 132

.. used in a structured text is surely something different, promising possibly "content of the addressed 22" and that in relation to the 4 passions of Stoia ... and when Boiardo later combined the same or similar 4 passions to another 22 with an internal "pair-model" in its system (as it also appears in the above Petrarca model of even and uneven numbers), this simply shouldn't be overlooked.

Petrarca might have structured the text, so one of his meta-chapters had 1, another 3, another 5, another 7 etc. subtitles in book one and in book 2 with 2,4,6 etc units. The head-lines of the meta-chapters would then display a sort of order similar to Tarot with 22 elements, as a "secret message".

For instance:
In the text of the second book (negative side) the title "De Morte" is followed by 13 others in the row and after the 13th subchapter the book is finished, so "De Morte" would have totally itself + 13 subchapters = 14 units ...
As the observed system works necessary with 1-22 and not as Tarot with 0-21, the parallel would say, that in Petrarca's system "Morte" would have Nr. 13 (although it's 14th) ... as it has in Tarot. That looks promising ...

************
Later addition:
Oops, I deleted something,cause I had an error about the numbers of spes, I've to rework this part ..
********

Though it's not clear, if this system would work totally ... and there's the certain diffamy in life, that the text not necessary has now the form, that it once had and which was intended by Petrarca. Simply chapters might have moved by later editors and the original row and concept is possibly disturbed.

Well ... it's a sort of a research game.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection to "De remediis utriusque fortunae"

#6
Huck wrote:Thanks Steven,

especially for the hint, that Stoic philosophy contained a passions system similar to that, what was used a.
Petrarch refers himself to his sources. The whole work is primarily modeled upon works of Cicero and Seneca; without doubt he was also familiar with the treatment of the four passions in Augustine, Jerome and Boethius too.

But ...

the addition of
1+3+5+7+9+11+13+15+17+19+21 = 121
and the addition of
2+4+6+8+10+12+14+16+18+20+22 = 132

.. used in a structured text is surely something different, promising possibly "content of the addressed 22" and that in relation to the 4 passions of Stoia ...
But as you note there are 122 dialogues in book one, not 121; straightaway you are reduced to 'fixing' the figures to suit your perceived scheme.

However, Petrarch did use number symbolism, and was very much influenced by Augustine's use of such (of which we have already given an example in the division of the City of God (one of the books it is said for Petrarch to possess) into 22 books) :

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DmG1 ... sm&f=false

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IIVU ... q=&f=false
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Collection to "De remediis utriusque fortunae"

#7
One speculation relating to number-games, that I have since found unhelpful, is that the sum of 1-6=21. That is, the sum of the number of Petrarch's Trionfi equals 21.

But I have not found any meaningful division of 1,2,3,4,5,6 that makes any meaningful groupings among the trumps, or rather clear conceptual divisions.

The most promising occurs with Bologna A - 1, 4, 5, 6, 3, 2, which gives groupings of

Bagatino

Four Papi

Love, Chariot, Three Virtues

Fortune, Time, Traitor, Death, Devil, Tower

Star, Moon, Sun

World, Angel

But while we may find some logic in those groupings, only the last has any obvious relation to one of Petrarch's triumphs - so we are back to the same situation as with "points on a die = 21" - i.e. it is an allusion to the symbolism of chance rather than a direct modelling of the symbolism of the Trionfi.

These days I don't see the need for the numbers 21 or 22 to mean anything in themselves - the number is a by-product of the allegorical narrative.
Image

Re: Collection to "De remediis utriusque fortunae"

#8
SteveM wrote: ...The whole work is primarily modeled upon works of Cicero and Seneca; without doubt he was also familiar with the treatment of the four passions in Augustine...
In his secretum, in which Petrarch portrays a dialogue between himself and Augustine, Petrarch uses the same biblical and Virgilian quotes as Augustine uses in the City of God:

Fiery energy
is in these seeds, their source is heavenly;
but they are dulled by harmful bodies, blunted
by their own earthly limbs, their mortal members.
Because of these, they fear and long, and sorrow
And joy, they do not see the light of heaven;
Locked in darkness and a blind prison.*

SteveM
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Collection to "De remediis utriusque fortunae"

#9
SteveM wrote:
Fiery energy
is in these seeds, their source is heavenly;
but they are dulled by harmful bodies, blunted
by their own earthly limbs, their mortal members.
Because of these, they fear and long, and sorrow
And joy, they do not see the light of heaven;
Locked in darkness and a blind prison.*

SteveM
Or as William Draper translates it:

S. Augustine. Do you know what stands in the way of your purpose of heart ?

Petrarch. That is what I want to know; what for so long I have earnestly desired to under- stand.

S. Augustine. Then listen. It was from Heaven your soul came forth: never will I assert a lower origin than that. But in its contact with the flesh, wherein it is imprisoned, it has lost much of its first splendor. Have no doubt of this in your mind. And not only is it so, but by reason of the length of time it has in a manner fallen asleep; and, if one may so express it, forgotten its own beginning and its heavenly Creator.

And these passions that are born in the soul through its connection with the body, and that forgetfulness of its nobler nature, seem to me to have been touched by Virgil with pen almost inspired when he writes--

"The soul of men still shine with heavenly fire,
That tells from whence they come, save that the flesh
And limbs of earth breed dullness, hence spring fears,
Desire, and grief and pleasures of the world,
And so, in darkness prisoned, the no more
Look upward to heaven's face."

Do you not in the poet's words discern that monster with four heads so deadly to the nature of man ?

Petrarch. I discern very clearly the fourfold passion of our nature, which, first of all, we divide in two as it has respect to past and future, and then subdivide again in respect of good and evil so, by these four winds distraught, the rest and quietness of man's soul is perished and gone.

PETRARCH'S SECRET Trans. William H. Draper
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~amtower/SECRET.HTM

Augustine: Scis quid cogitationi tue officiat?

Francesco: Hoc est quod peto, hoc est quod tantopere scire desidero.

Augustine: Audi ergo. Animam quidem tuam, sicut celitus bene institutam esse non negaverim, sic ex contagio corporis huius, ubi circumsepta est, multum a primeva nobilitate sua degenerasse ne dubites; nec degenerasse duntaxat, sed longo iam tractu temporis obtorpuisse, factam velut proprie originis ac superni Conditoris immemorem. Nempe passiones ex corporea commistione subortas oblivionemque nature melioris, divinitus videtur attigisse Virgilius, ubi ait:

igneus est illis visor et celestis origo seminibus, quantum non noxia corpora tardant terrenique hebetant artus, moribundaque membra. Hinc metuunt cupiuntque dolent gaudentque, neque auras respiciunt, clause tenebris et carcere ceco.

Discernis ne in verbis poeticis quadriceps illud monstrum nature hominum tam adversum?

Francesco: Discerno clarissime quadripartitam animi passionem, que primum quidem, ex presentis futurique temporis respectu, in duas scinditur partes; rursus quelibet in duas alias, ex boni malique opinione, subdistinguitur; ita quattuor velut flatibus aversis humanarum mentium tranquillitas perit.

DE SECRETO CONFLICTU CURARUM MEARUM by F. Petrarch I, 64
http://petrarch.petersadlon.com/read_secretum.html?s=1

SteveM
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Collection to "De remediis utriusque fortunae"

#10
SteveM wrote: However, Petrarch did use number symbolism, and was very much influenced by Augustine's use of such (of which we have already given an example in the division of the City of God (one of the books it is said for Petrarch to possess) into 22 books) :
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:One speculation relating to number-games, that I have since found unhelpful, is that the sum of 1-6=21. That is, the sum of the number of Petrarch's Trionfi equals 21.
“A significant part of Petrarch’s number symbolism appear to have derived from St. Augustine. In the De Civitate Dei...the Saint wrote a chapter on the perfection of the figure 6, and this, as we know, was destined to become Laura’s symbolic number...”

According to the symbolic chronology Petrarch developed for Laura he met her on the 6 April 1327 at the first canonical hour and she died at the first canonical hour on 6 April exactly 21 years later.
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

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