Re: Lorenzo de Spirito: Libro del Sorte

#41
Yes, the 1528 Spanish version is in its system near to that of 1551, but also not the same.

From the earlier analyzes it was clear, that already the oldest version, which Sotzmann knew in 1850, already had differences to the version of 1482 (which Sotzmann didn't knew). From Sotzmann is also the information, that possibly a version exists or existed, which was from 1473.

Anyway ... we know the version of 1482 and this version gives the impression, that Spirito had specific ideas about his arrangement, which naturally were disturbed, when other hands carelessly changed the order.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lorenzo de Spirito: Libro del Sorte

#42
I found a note to a manuscript in Trier (given to early 16th century), which possibly ALSO used a system with 4x22 elements - like the Bollstatter-system of 1450 (which possibly was imitated by Spirito later and was discussed by Sotzmann in 1851 ... as reported here in the thread earlier).

Die deutschen und niederländischen Handschriften der Stadtbibliothek Trier
http://books.google.com/books?id=-itYVP ... &q&f=false

Image

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The text aboves gives MS 312 as similar. That's the Bollstatter-text, whose similarity I understand.

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The text gives this fragmented work... "Frankisches Losbuch" (1426/1450) ... as similar.

http://www.bildindex.de/dokumente/html/ ... 2941#|home

I can't say, that I understand the relationship.

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This is a 3rd edition said to be similar, from 1520 in Landshut by the printer Johann Weißenburg

This text I found (it somehow operates with a system of 22 questions, 22 kings, 22 prophets and 22 animals (between them 12 zodiac-signs):

http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db ... 06&seite=1

The last "King" (of 22) is the pope and remarkably his animal is the donkey.

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The second last "King" is the emperor, his animal is the hare.

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The first king is the king of France, his animal is "Libra".

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The text is given as from c. 1520 ... the pope-donkey connection might indicate a protestantic feeling at the side of the printer.
Emperor = Hare and first trump = King of France = Libra (Justice) might reflect the choice of the emperor short before 1520, at which opportunity Charles V. was opposed by Francois I, King of France.

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Interestingly the sign Gemini uses Adam and Eve as twins.

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Having studied the version of 1520 a little bit, and going back to this confusing Fränkische Losbuch of c. 1426-1450 (according somebody else I found 3rd quarter instead 2nd quarter as dating), which is, as I get it, a heavily fragmented text, I find, that remaining details (at least those, which I controlled) were rather precisely that, what is given in the version of 1520 (I didn't check the text, only the pictures).

The Pope (Fränkisches Losbuch):

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The Emperor (Fränkisches Losbuch)

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Gemini (Fränkisches Losbuch)

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So my suspicion, that the pope found his donkey cause of political conditions in 1520 seems wrong, this picture must have existed much earlier.

The version of Trier is different, though the row of persons also includes an Emperor and a "pabest" as I read it, but below the Emperor is inner German nobility presented.

The Bollstatter-system anyway is different, though similar in structure ... 22-22-22-22
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lorenzo de Spirito: Libro del Sorte

#43
Huck wrote:I found a note to a manuscript in Trier (given to early 16th century), which possibly ALSO used a system with 4x22 elements - like the Bollstatter-system of 1450 (which possibly was imitated by Spirito later and was discussed by Sotzmann in 1851 ... as reported here in the thread earlier).
...
Thanks to some rather inspiring findings this part of the topic was moved to a new thread

The Pope with the donkey / "Oldest Tarot"
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=663
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lorenzo de Spirito: Libro del Sorte

#44
In the opening of this thread (1st post) I noted this text ...
2. German Serapeum report of the year 1850, in which the author Sotzmann notes, that he heard of an earlier edition [of Lorenzo Spirito] of the year 1473 in Vicenza. Additionally he gives a description of a later edition.

http://books.google.com/books?id=BDdZAA ... q=&f=false
(Serapeum text)
In my later researches this text and its location and state stayed a riddle.

Now I found at ...
http://www.gesamtkatalogderwiegendrucke ... M43159.htm
... the description:
M43159 Spirito, Lorenzo: Libro della sorte. Vicenza: Leonardus Achates, [um 1485]. 2°
30 Bl. e⁶fg⁶h. 2 Sp. 43 Z.
HR 14957. Sander 7043. IGI 9137. ISTC is00685300.
Venezia BNMarc.

Gesamtkatalog der Wiegendrucke • http://gesamtkatalogderwiegendrucke.de/docs/M43159.htm • Letzte Änderung: 2012-04-17
and a handwritten note with ..



****************

The current Wiegendrucke research about this text assumes a date of c. 1485 (see above). Sotzmann in 1851 indicated a possibly very early printing in c. 1473, a time, when the printer Leonardus Achates had started to work (Achates worked from 1472 - 1491) in Italy.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardus_Achates
If the Achates text is just a later copy (from c. 1485) from the known "first edition" from 1482", it would be rather uninteresting for our research. But if it would be of c. 1473, as Sotzmann suggested, it would be very interesting, as we just would have a new "first edition".

The description of the Vicenza edition gives "30 Bl.", which means 30 Folio or c. 60 pages. Further "43 Z.", which means 43 Zeilen, that are 43 lines of text.

The pdf of the Ulm edition (1482) ...
http://www.ulm.de/sixcms/media.php/29/L ... a_1482.pdf
.... uses 89 pages, but 2 pages are technical introduction. The internal text counting finishes with "Folio No. 44". A personal counting of the text lines ("Zeilen") gives the result "43", as it also given for the Vicenza edition.

From this it seems, that the Vicenza edition (30 Folio) was shortened. 14 Folios are simply missing. If the Vicenza edition was earlier, well, then the text or the picture gallery would have been expanded in the later 1482 edition, or, second possibility, the text is younger (c. 1485), then there's the possibility, that something was shortened or that the edition is just incomplete.

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Sotzmann in 1851 saw a strange and very rare production technique used for the book, otherwise unknown - a mix of Blockbuch pages (full woodblock pages only known in his time in German or Dutch productions) with letter printed pages. This raised his curiosity and made him suggest the "possibly from 1473" dating. But he didn't see the text and hoped for some help.

The whole case stays in the state "not clear".
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lorenzo de Spirito: Libro del Sorte ; theme lotbook

#46
A French lot book version of 1559 imitated the Lorenzo Spirito version. It used 20 French Kings, 20 flowers, 20 astrological symbols and 20 prophets.
http://warburg-archive.sas.ac.uk/pdf/fmh3140frw.pdf

Impressum
Title: Le Passetemps de la Fortune des Dez
Printer address: Guillaume Le Noir, rue S. Jacques à la Roseblanche couronnée , known as Guillaume I Le Noir
(he had a son with the same name; possibly he was also the author of the work)
http://data.bnf.fr/15025312/guillaume_le_noir/

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Some text refers to Lorenzo Spirito ...

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Fortune as the starting picture

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The text fields include information to the 20 Kings. Example pictures for the French Kings:

Image


In time the kings start with "Pharamond (I)" (legendary ancestor of Merowech [III], who formed the expression "Merowinger") and end with Louis VI (XXXX), who reigned 1108-1137. The Kings refer to specific flowers (for the flowers: one page is missing, so that there are are only 18 pictures for them (Ancolie and Tirolet are missing; the number in brackets refer to the position of the pictures of the flowers)

Dagobert XI ... fleur Ancolie
Cherebert VIII ... fleur de corte corueille (4)
Charles XXIIII (Magnus) ... fleur du Damas (6)
Childebert VI ... fleur de Giroflier (2)
--
Pharamond I ... fleur de la Campane (3)
Clovis V ... Rose de rosier (5)
Odo XXX ... fleur de la Passe rose (15)
Merovee III ... fleur de la Spavanche (18)
--
Hugue XXXVI ... fleur de la Bourache (11)
Ludovicus (VI) Louis XXXX ... fleur de la Marguerite (14)
Lotaire XXXIIII ... fleur du Tirolet
Philippe XXXIX ... fleur des Pois (13)
--
Childeric IIII ... fleur de la Pensee (16)
Chilperic IX ... fleur de la Fresze (8)
Pepin XXIII ... fleur du pied d'Alouette (17)
Rudolphis XXXII (Raoul) ... fleur du Lis (1)
--
Clodio II ... fleur du boton du Rosier (7)
Clotaire VII ... bouton du Girossier (12?)
Theodoric XV ... fleur du Chardon (10)
Robert XXXVII ... fleur du Muguet blanc (9)

Example for the Flower pictures:

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Example for the astrological symbols (11 zodiac signs, 7 planets + Apollo + Cristalin ; Pisces is missing)

Image


Thoreau ... Taurus
Venus ... Venus
Le Lyon ... Leo
Cancer ... Cancer
Soleil ... Sun
Scorpion ... Scorpio
Vierge ... Virgo
Saturne ... Saturn
Gemini ... Gemini
La Lune ... Moon
Cristalin ... stars
Mouton ... Aries
Capricorne ... Capricorn
Libra ... Libra
Mars ... Mars
Iupiter ... Iupiter
Mercure ... Mercury
Aquarius ... Aquarius
Apollo ... Apollo
Sagitaire ... Sagitarius

Example for the prophets

Image

Adam
David
Isaac
Ioseph
Iacob
Thobie (Tobias)
Iona (Jonas)
Mathusale
Ezechiel
Simeon
Helysee (Elias)
Abraam
Moyse
Balaam
Noel
Helie (Helios ?)
Nabuc
Neptalim
Daniel
Isaye

Each Prophet has 56 oracles.

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Fortune at the Minchiate Francexi (later):

Image


This lot book ...

Image
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lorenzo de Spirito: Libro del Sorte ; theme lotbook

#47
A Facsimile edition (4790 Euro) from a Lorenzo Spirito lot book version, illuminated 1500-1510. Nice pictures.
The description goes so far to call the Lorenzo Spirito work the "first bestseller".
http://www.ziereis-faksimiles.de/schick ... -gualtieri

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IL PALAZZO DI ATLANTE DI GIUSEPPE MARIA MITELLI ...
http://www.somniiexplanatio.it/il-palaz ... ia-mitelli
... seems to be a relative to the Lorenzo Spirito version (c. 1710)

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The unsolved case with the year 1473 or 1482 for the work is still unsolved ...

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=442&p=5751&hilit=achates#p5751
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=442&p=12231&hilit=achates#p12231

An Italian description is here ...
http://www.internetculturale.it/opencms ... +leonardus
Gualtieri, Lorenzo <1426-1496>
Achates, Leonardus
Qui comenza el libro chiamato libro dela uentura ouer libro dela sorte ... / [Lorenzo spirito]
[Vicenza] : el uero compositore di basylea fu mastro leonardo qual di farlo in uicenza non fu tardo
[opac SBN] [Testo a stampa] [Monografia] [IT\ICCU\VEAE\125659]
From the link "vedi" one gets more information:
http://opac.sbn.it/opacsbn/opac/iccu/sc ... EAE\125659
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lorenzo de Spirito: Libro del Sorte ; theme lotbook

#48
Description of a Spanish Lorenzo Spirito lot book, Valentia 1528

LIBRO DEL JUEGO DE LAS
SUERTES.
LORENZO SPIRITO.
VALENCIA, JUAN JOFFRE, 1528 (31 JULIO).
MADRID, BIBL. NACIONAL, R-9015
http://parnaseo.uv.es/imprenta/Textos/2 ... ipcion.pdf

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List of 43 Lorenzo Spirito editions
stc.ac.uk/index.php/search/cicero?tm_fulltext=&tm_field_allauthr=Spirito%2C+Lorenzo&tm_translator=&tm_editor=&tm_field_short_title=&tm_field_imprint=&tm_field_place=&sm_field_year=&f_sm_field_year=&t_sm_field_year=&sm_field_country=&sm_field_lang=&sm_field_format=&sm_field_digital=&tm_field_class=&tm_field_cit_name=&tm_field_cit_no=&order=&start=25
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lorenzo de Spirito: Libro del Sorte ; theme lotbook

#49
From a review (2010-10-29) of a reproduction of the Lorenzo Spirito edition 1982 in Ulm by "Schwäbisches Tagblatt"
http://www.tagblatt.de/Nachrichten/Losb ... 87498.html
Ulm "Wird mein Leben glücklich oder unglücklich?" Das ist die erste Frage, auf welche das Losbuch des Verfassers Lorenzo Spirito eine Antwort verspricht. Er veröffentlichte es 1482 in seiner Heimatstadt Perugia. Losbücher hatte es zwar schon früher gegeben. Dieses aber war das erste gedruckte. Es wurde ein Bestseller: Bis 1700 erschienen 50 Auflagen in fünf Ländern; das war ein gutes Drittel aller in diesem Zeitraum gedruckten Losbücher.

Von der ersten Auflage ist nur ein einziges Exemplar erhalten, und das gehört der Stadtbibliothek Ulm. Es stammt aus dem Nachlass des Patriziers Erhard Schad (1604-1681), dessen Sammlung wissenschaftlicher Bücher 13 600 Titel umfasste. Der stellvertretender Leiter der Ulmer Stadtbibliothek, Alexander Rosenstock, hat das Losbuch des Lorenzo Spirito, seine Geschichte, seinen internationalen Stellenwert und seine Wirkung gründlich untersucht und diese Spurensuche nun als Buch publiziert.
According this Lorenzo Spirito published the lot book in Perugia 1482, but the Ulm edition was the first printed version. It became a bestseller: 50 editions appeared till the year 1700 in 5 countries - this was about 1/3 of all printed lot book editions in this period.
From the Ulm edition only one book remained, and this belongs to city library of Ulm.

My personal comment: I don't believe, that this is totally correct.

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Printed Lorenzo Spirito edition 1489 (Bavaria, without pictures):
https://bildsuche.digitale-sammlungen.d ... &nav=&l=it
Huck
http://trionfi.com

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