"The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

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Re: "The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

Postby mmfilesi on 30 Apr 2010, 08:26

Well, continued with chess. :)

It’s the turn of Michelino’s decks.

Maybe?

Player 1

a1 > Tower: 14. Eolus
a2 > knight: 10. Mars
a3 > Bishop: 6. Neptun
a4 > Queen: 2. Juno
a5 > King: 1. Jupiter
a6 > Bishop: 5. Apollo
a7 > knight: 9. Mercury
a8 > Tower: 13. Hercules

Player 2

a1 > Tower: 16. Cupido
a2 > knight: 12. Ceres
a3 > Bishop: 8. Bacchus
a4 > Queen: 4. Venus
a5 > King: 3. Pallas
a6 > Bishop: 7. Diana
a7 > knight: 11. Vesta
a8 > Tower: 15. Daphne

************

Do you know if exists a relationship with this scheme?

1. Aquisitio | 2. Amisio | 3. Letitia | 4. Tristitia
5. Fortuna Maior | 6. F. Minor | 7. Coiunctio | 8. Carcer
9. Albus | 10. Rubeus | 11. Puella | 12. Puer
13. Populus | 14. Vía | 15. Caput | 16. Cauda
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)
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Re: "The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

Postby Huck on 30 Apr 2010, 10:00

Well, it's more like (though it's not clear, if this is the only possible version):

Chess officers
1 Female, 7 Male (Queen + 7 others) as in the Master Ingold game and in usual chess

a1 > Tower: 14. Eolus
b1 > knight: 10. Mars
c1 > Bishop: 6. Neptun
d1 > Queen: 2. Juno
e1 > King: 1. Jupiter
f1 > Bishop: 5. Apollo
g1 > knight: 9. Mercury
h1 > Tower: 13. Hercules

Chess Pawns
6 Female, 2 (Cupido 7 Bacchus) a little bit half male / half female

a2 > Tower-pawn: 16. Cupido
b2 > knight-pawn: 12. Ceres
c2 > Bishop-pawn: 8. Bacchus
d2 > Queen-pawn: 4. Venus
e2 > King-pawn: 3. Pallas
f2 > Bishop-pawn: 7. Diana
g2 > knight-pawn: 11. Vesta
h2 > Tower-pawn: 15. Daphne

We have the development, that the Cary-Yale follows later, and this has (in the theory of the reconstruction) the pawns all female, connected to 7 virtues with Love (= Cupido). So it makes sense to assume, that something similar had existed before.

The clear dominant idea had been to fill the position 16-5 with the 12 gods of the Olymps, which are reached by Heracles as the "13th god".
... .-) ... Greek gods developed their character in antique minds, when chess wasn't known. Medieval attempts to connect both symbol systems naturally had difficulties.

Geomancy very easily is connected to chess:

1111 = King
2222 = Queen

1221 = Rook
2112 = Rook

1212 = Knight
2121 = Knight

1122 = Bishop
2211 = Bishop

4 Pawns =
1222
2122
2212
2221

4 Pawns =
2111
1211
1121
1112

... just for mathematical reasons. However, there seems no confirmation outside in a text, that chess and geomancy was really connected in the 14th century minds (not everybody thinks in the mathematical way). Also we observe, that chess players experimented, changed the size of the boards, altered the number of figures, made variations in the rules, had different start positions.

Evrart da Conty had 16 other gods and another row, clearly dominated by the planets gods (which are the top 7 of his row) and also he felt it necessary to fulfill the chess dream with definitions from the Roman de la rose. Why not? This chess symbols enrichment game was a discussion and card designers fulfilled different visions of a possible allegory.
There is no truth in such mental games, there was just the game of building an analogy between different systems, occasionally "elegant" and "understandable by our modern mind" and occasionally "strange" and "not understandable".

Well ...
Filippo Maria seems to have followed the JvR version with 60 cards. If its arrangement aimed mainly on chess, why didn't he chose 64 cards instead?
The JvR deck was somehow a court deck, but it reached the popular market. In the later Bohemian Hofämterspiel we find 6 court cards instead of the 5 in the JvR deck? Are we sure, that JvR did see the original version? Perhaps the original court deck version had 6 court cards (and with this totally 64 cards), but this was not given to the public market. In that case the "Fools were hidden" ... and only used for the private amusement o the highest nobility.
Only the Emperor was allowed to hunt with eagles ... and below this there was a strong hierarchy, which rank of persons was allowed to use special birds. And if somebody acted against these rules, there were strong prohibitions and penalties, even death was possible.
How was the case with the use of cards? Were everybody allowed to play with the same decks? At least there might have been attempts to secure some place of "splendid isolation" for the noble spirits, not reachable to the common citizen.
Well ... idle human behavior. Some classes preferred to have special rights. And so we might have an "unknown factor" in our considerations and no way to get information about it.
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Re: "The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

Postby mmfilesi on 30 Apr 2010, 11:39

Thanks Huck. As always, very friendly.

Well I thought that the chess figures are god . The court cards can be the pawns. That is, if the game is to hunt the virgin, its necesary are not in the same player, but opposing players.

Maybe it's more reasonable in a geomantic scheme (Petrus Albanus)

In normal order by numeration:

1. Aquisitio - 1. Jupiter
2. Amisio - 2. Juno
3. Letitia - 3. Pallas
4. Tristitia - 4. Venus
5. Fortuna Maior - 5. Apollo
6. F. Minor - 6. Neptun
7. Coiunctio - 7. Diana
8. Carcer - 8. Bacchus
9. Albus - 9. Mercury
10. Rubeus - 10. Mars
11. Puella - 11. Vesta
12. Puer - 12. Ceres
13. Populus - 13. Hercules
14. Vía - 14. Eolus
15. Caput - 15. Daphne
16. Cauda - 16. Cupido

dosejercitios.gif
dosejercitios.gif (36 KiB) Viewed 5332 times
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)
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Re: "The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

Postby Huck on 30 Apr 2010, 20:56

The structural (mathematical) similarity between chess and geomancy is simple given ...

However, the ideological content of geomancy in the medieval world seems to be questionable, especially its mix with 7 planets, Western astrology etc.. I don't claim to understand this content and its development ... and I think it troublesome to gain reliable information about it.

So ... from my side no comment ... .-) ... various things at the model, which is given as "general model of geomancy" I simply take as not very logical.
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Re: "The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

Postby mmfilesi on 30 Apr 2010, 21:13

Yes, yes...

I working with Petrus Albanus. I suposse its the geomanty adoperated by Filippo. But i will prepare thread in this forum, and then i can explain better. :)
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)
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Re: "The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

Postby mmfilesi on 01 May 2010, 15:09

This post its dedicated to Huck.

Chess, Geomantia, and a deck with Gods Part I of II

I dont know its correct or not, but its interesting this soup: chess and geomantia. Well...

a) Premise 1. Filippo Maria made the deck of the gods without geomantic purposes. He gived great importance to divination and would not employ a game for something so important to him. Thats mind, its a game, not mantic system.

b) Premise 2. Filippo Maria loved the geomantia. He had many books in his library about geomantia and his biographers agree that he was very superstitious. This means that their perception of the world, their view of reality is influenced by mantic model. Ok?

c) Premise 3. If we want known what geomantia known Filippo, we can adoperate Petrus Albanus, a teacher of Pavia in century XIII. (NOT Agripa, its too later). Then I put a copy in my web for download.

*************

1. In Geomantic we have 16 figures. In the Albano Schema:

g1.jpg
g1.jpg (29.56 KiB) Viewed 5315 times


More clear:
g2.gif
g2.gif (23.96 KiB) Viewed 5315 times


2. This figures are made of 4 positions binary:


Aquisitio: 1010
Amisio: 0101
Letitia: 0111
Tristitia: 1110
Fortuna Mayor: 1100
Fortuna Menor: 0011
Coiunctio: 1001
Carcer: 0110
Albus: 1101
Rubeus: 1011
Puella: 0100
Puer: 0010
Populus: 1111
Via: 0000
Caput Dragon: 1000
Cauda Dragon: 0001

3. Petrus Albanus said are figures fortunate, unfortunate, neutral but a little lucky, and a very bad neutral.

g3.gif
g3.gif (18.67 KiB) Viewed 5315 times


[continued in another post, thats its more clear]
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)
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Re: "The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

Postby mmfilesi on 01 May 2010, 15:21

4. Chess dasboard and binary numbers.

Only two files

g4.gif
g4.gif (8.77 KiB) Viewed 5313 times


Now we can put the figures of geomantia

g5.gif
g5.gif (20.7 KiB) Viewed 5313 times


:-? ... Not a pretty picture. It looks messy.

We will sort by opposite pairs (in Geomantia, the 16 figures are opposed of pairs)

g6.gif
g6.gif (20.94 KiB) Viewed 5313 times


Oh! that's better :)

[continued in another post]
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)
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Re: "The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

Postby mmfilesi on 01 May 2010, 15:36

5. Michelino deck.

g7.gif
g7.gif (7.52 KiB) Viewed 5311 times


Michelino deck in order the figures as said Petrus Albanus:

g8.gif
g8.gif (28.72 KiB) Viewed 5311 times


In our dasboard chess:

g9.gif
g9.gif (18.66 KiB) Viewed 5311 times


We can ordered in this way (I cant explain the cause in English, but I hope its clear) (Se van alternando en orden creciente a partir de la primera figura singular. Es decir, 3 - 1 (en árabe se escribe al revés), 3 - 1- 5, etcétera).

g10.gif
g10.gif (19.28 KiB) Viewed 5311 times


And the, we can put the pieces of chess:

g11.gif
(33.93 KiB) Downloaded 990 times


End Part I. I take a ~o) and then explain the Part II: Dafne, the family and the judge
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)
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Re: "The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

Postby Huck on 01 May 2010, 15:54

... :-) ...

I fear for your sexual relationships, if you give Venus a correspondence to Tristitia. ... .-)

Perhaps it's easier to show, what Peter of Abano said to geomancy, without graphic.
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Re: "The 5x14 Theory: An Investigation" part II

Postby mmfilesi on 01 May 2010, 16:03

I fear for your sexual relationships, if you give Venus a correspondence to Tristitia
. ... :)

But maybe its not strange for Filippo ; )

Then I explain Peter.

Well, I continued with:


Part II. Dafne, the family and the judge

Sorry very much, but I need explain this in spanish. I cant explain in English. Its too complicated and longer.

1. ¿Cómo funciona la consulta geomántica?


Todo el sistema se basa en un sistema binario. El que consulta hace una pregunta concreta: ¿conviene ir a la guerra?, ¿mato a Lorenzo di Medici?, ¿me caso con María de Saboya?, ¿subo los impuestos de la lana? o cualquier otro asunto que se nos ocurra. Entonces, el mago realiza la consulta geomántica, que consiste en lo siguiente.

Tirando un dado o unas piedrecitas, haciendo marcas en la arena, dibujando en un papel o mediante cualquier sistema similar, el mago realiza una «tirada», la cual ofrece un resultado par o impar. Si es par son dos puntos y si es impar, un punto. Cuatro tiradas de este tipo, que pueden ser par o impar, forman una figura, la cual se dibuja poniendo de arriba abajo uno o dos puntos según corresponda. Este galimatías se entiende fácilmente con un ejemplo. Imaginemos que tiramos 4 veces un dado de seis caras y obtenemos este resultado:

Tirada 1: 3
Tirada 2: 2
Tirada 3: 5
Tirada 4: 4

Convertimos el resultado en posiciones binarias:

Tirada 1: 3 > Impar: 1 punto
Tirada 2: 2 > Par: 2 puntos
Tirada 3: 5 > Impar: 1 punto
Tirada 4: 4 > Par: 2 puntos

Si dibujamos la figura resultante quedaría algo así:

09_geom_1.gif
09_geom_1.gif (833 Bytes) Viewed 5306 times


Sin embargo, en la geomántica occidental se prefiere centrar el punto, que así queda más bonito y permite relacionar las figuras con imágenes simbólicas más fácilmente, como veremos a continuación. Por lo tanto, vamos a dibujarlo así:

09_geom_2.gif
09_geom_2.gif (839 Bytes) Viewed 5306 times


[Continued in anohter post]
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)
User avatar
mmfilesi
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Location: Trionfi Islands
Favorite Deck: Fiorentina
Aliases: marcos méndez

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