Page 40 of 40

### Re: Trionfi.com: News and Updates

Posted: 08 Mar 2020, 04:02
How do you get 3 double scales yielding the number 8? It seems like it should have been 4 double scales.

### Re: Trionfi.com: News and Updates

Posted: 08 Mar 2020, 09:15
2*2*2 = 8

If you have a cube, you can cut it with 3 cuts (from top to bottom, from left to right, from front to back) in 8 smaller cubes. I think, it belongs to the platonic ideas, that 8 was called a number of Justice ... long before 8 was the number of the Tarot Justice. Somewhere I've read so. The 8 belongs to row of the binary numbers and to the row of the cubic numbers.

2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512 ...
1-8-27-64-125-216-342-512 ...

### Re: Trionfi.com: News and Updates

Posted: 14 Mar 2020, 18:43
Chapelle du château des Avenières

Opening page
http://hermetism.free.fr/Avenieres/aven ... nglish.htm

Assan-Farid et Amina Dina
http://hermetism.free.fr/Avenieres/avenieres%2084.htm

Les XXII lames du tarot d'Amina Dina
http://hermetism.free.fr/Avenieres/avenieres10.htm

Plan of chapel
http://hermetism.free.fr/Avenieres/avenieres%2069.htm

Older material, as once presented at Aeclectic
http://www.rando-saleve.net/salhist.html

Location, close to Geneve

### Re: Trionfi.com: News and Updates

Posted: 22 May 2020, 08:38
Neun gute Helden / Neuf-preux / Nine Worthies

In contrast to the widespred version, that Jacques of Longuyons was the inventor of the Nine Worthies in 1312, an expert of Netherland literature had published his thesis, that Jacob van Maerlant was active with the topic before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_van_Maerlant
Based on doctoral research (Van Anrooij 1997), it is now thought likely that van Maerlant was also the author of the hitherto anonymous Van neghen den besten ("On the Nine Worthies"). This would be his last work. It is one of the few works with European distribution whose source text was written in Middle Dutch. The work had a profound and lasting impact on the honor code of the Western European knightly elite.
... the Netherland wiki gives the source: W. VAN ANROOIJ, Helden van weleer. De Negen Besten in de Nederlanden (1300-1700), Amsterdam, 1997.

The text is part of the discussion in this work:
(the text is not complete; it seems, that the thesis is not accepted by all researchers in the field)

### Re: Trionfi.com: News and Updates

Posted: 22 May 2020, 18:11
Huck wrote:
22 May 2020, 08:38
Neun gute Helden / Neuf-preux / Nine Worthies

In contrast to the widespred version, that Jacques of Longuyons was the inventor of the Nine Worthies in 1312, an expert of Netherland literature had published his thesis, that Jacob van Maerlant was active with the topic before.
Many thanks Huck! I've been doing nothing but reading this literature and only one scholar cited the Dutch source (was wondering how legit it was), so thanks again for the very timely post.

At all events, its quite clear that the Nine Worthies first took hold in the "Benelux" Franco-Flemish region (e.g., Longuyon is 40 kms from Luxembourg) and spread from there (to nearby Cologne, Arras, etc.).

For an early yet monumental version of the Worthies in Cologne and the spread of the genre in a communal (versus courtly) context, this chapter might interest you (in Google books): Andrey Egorov, "Charismatic Rulers in Civic Guise: Images of the Nine Worthies in Northern European Town Halls of the 14th to 16th Centuries"
in Faces of Charisma: Image, Text, Object in Byzantium and the Medieval West, Edd. Larissa Tracy, 2018: 205–240.

Phaeded

### Re: Trionfi.com: News and Updates

Posted: 22 May 2020, 19:32
Phaeded wrote:
22 May 2020, 18:11
Huck wrote:
22 May 2020, 08:38
Neun gute Helden / Neuf-preux / Nine Worthies

In contrast to the widespred version, that Jacques of Longuyons was the inventor of the Nine Worthies in 1312, an expert of Netherland literature had published his thesis, that Jacob van Maerlant was active with the topic before.
....was wondering how legit it was...
An excellent article that updates the controversy (has serious critics) with the author saying van Maerlant's thesis has merits but does not conclusively decide either way.

I found this conclusion from his review of all early Dutch references to the Worthies of great value however:

It is remarkable how often the Nine Worthies appear in a manuscript that also preserves one or more chronicles. This is most apparent in the anuscripts preserving the short Nine Worthies text, where the chronicles are the only other extensive text in the manuscript. But as I have shown, also the Geraardsbergen and Comburg manuscripts preserve chronicles in the vicinity of the Nine Worthies text. It has to be stressed that it goes beyond the reach of this contribution to claim or even suggest that Nine Worthies texts and chronicles are in general meant to be conjoined, but it is interesting that they are found together so often.60 If we allow ourselves a leap that might turn out to be a bit (or even much) too far, it is interesting to see that when found close together, a chronicle and a Nine Worthies text form an interesting combination that has a two-way effect. A Nine Worthies text is a moralized synopsis in narrative form of the history described in the chronicles, summarized around nine heroes, and v.v., the chronicles are factual, wider histories, (usually implicitly) putting the achievements of the Nine Worthies in a broad historical context. Even if this is not the intention, the effect is noteworthy and could be a starting point for comparative research.
Bouwmeester, Gerard. 'The Nine Worthies in Middle Dutch Miscellanies', in Brigitte. Burrichter et al. (eds), Aktuelle Tendenzen der Artusforschung (Berlin), 2013: 360.
https://dynamicsofthemedievalmanuscript ... rthies.pdf

I would even venture that the Nine Worthies - without any corroborating Chronicles context - represent an extremely abridged digest of world history (the "worthy" part at least), as typically each Worthy's titulus is made to say how many years before or after Christ each died.

What is particularly fascinating is that the earliest Dutch text (which can merely be dated before 1343, but if associated with van Maerlant, d. c. 1300, which would be much earlier) calls for the addition of Worthies, which is precisely what happens in the second half of the of the 14th century in the context of the French courts, but on the Dutch manuscript:

Finally, Comburg preserves a short epilogue in which the author summons his audience to add to this list of Nine: »He who wants to praise better knights or wise men than these Nine were in their days, mention them without delay« (l. 582–585). (ibid, 354)

As for the on-going Marziano discussion (which I'll elaborate there), one might conceive of Marziano's game in terms of the elevation of Filippo as a "new worthy", not in the context of world history and fellow worthies, but in direct discourse with the gods (however euhemeristic and their virtues allegorized) where one can receive the divine bounties/virtues in order to become a worthy. What is absolutely novel is the medium of a deck of cards, which necessarily contributed to the fourfold organization (e.g., 9 would never work)....to which I'll turn to Valentina Visconti, the bridge between the Parisian and Milanese courts, in having both "Saracen" and "Lombard" cards in her possession at the time of her death in 1408.

Phaeded

### Re: Trionfi.com: News and Updates

Posted: 23 May 2020, 03:24
Die neun Helden ... by Robert L. Wyss (1957), pages 73-106
https://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view? ... 7::323#106

page 77
The author states, that each of the heroes gets in the text of Longuyon a 7-11-lines-biography, mostly a collection of victories. Together this should make about 100-120 lines of text, which is not very much.
The old edition, which I have from Gallica, has 30 lines for a page, which makes 4 pages of 183 or 201, if I interpret the text correctly (the book has two texts ... Jacques de Longuyon,Vœux du Paon ; Jean le Court dit Brisebarre, Restor du paon ... it's not totally clear to me, where the second text starts) .
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... checontact

Abecedarium: Erzählte Dinge im Mittelalter.
Peter Glasner, Sebastian Winkelsträter, Birgit Zacke
Ambassador GmbH, 04.06.2019 - 316 Seiten
Page 188/189 Artikel "Das Pfauenmahl"