Re: Council of Constance

#11
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:
05 Sep 2020, 18:48
I sometimes wonder if Marziano attended Constance. There is no record of him in 1415 at all.

He was a witness to an act of fealty to Filippo Maria in Milan on 5 November 1414, and we don't see him again until 17 February 1416 in Milan, when is a witness to an extension of Filippo Maria's truce with the Marquis of Monferrato.
Not sure if you've come across this work before, but decent chunks of it scanned on Google - 88f especially interesting for plenty of details involving a dice board game. Didn't see Marziano mentioned unfortunately, although plenty of details on the window of time that interests you at the council.

Martin J. Cable, “Cum Essem in Constantie...”: Raffaele Fulgosio and the Council of Constance 1414-1415, 2015

Also, apparently a top ally of Sigismund's machinations at the Council were the Archbishop of Milan, Bartolomeo de la Capra, representing the "Italian nation", although that dates from 1417 (Phillip H. Stump, The Reforms of the Council of Constance (1414-1418, 1994: 33).

Re: Council of Constance

#12
Ulrich Richental: Die Chronik des Konzils von Konstanz
Aulendorfer Version (= A-Version) (Page 251)

https://edition.mgh.de/001/html/edition.html

Text
Uff sontag nach aller hailgen tag, der waz an dem sibenden tag Octobrisa, do schluͦg unßer herr der küng brieff an alle kirchen ze Costentz und gebott daran by lib und by guͦt, daz hinfür nieman sölt gan zuͦ dem koffhuß zuͦ dem conclavi, dann die, die darzuͦ geben waren, all die wil und die cardinäl und ander herren darinne waren und och als verr nit zuͦ hin kommen, dann wie es verschranket ward. Und sölt och dazwüschen nieman kain gelöff noch kain geschraig machen, weder mit pfifen noch mit dehainen andern sachen. Und solt och kain schiff by ains armbrost schutzes1 nach zuͦ dem kofhuß varen. Und solt och da zwüschen nieman spilen noch karten, noch kainerlay spil tuͦn, weder haimlich noch offenlich, biß ain baͧpst erwellet wurd. Und welher ze bapst erwellet wurd, daz man dem in das huß nit solt louffen, noch nüntz daruß nemen by der vordrigen buͦß; wann ettweb sitt waz, welher ze baͧpst erwellet ward, dem luff man in sin huß und nam menglich alles daz, so dar inn waz2. Und nach imbiß hieß er das durch die statt allenthalben rüfen. Und also sandet er durch die statt den markschalkc und der von Costentz burgermaister Hainrichen von Ulm. Und ruͦftend daz ainer in tütsch, der ander in latin und ainr in wälschd, darumb daz es menglich marckti3.
O4 summum bonum, miserere mei.

Explanations
a) Octobris] des andren herpstmonatz Pr; korr. zu Novembris WoSt2.b) folgt zuͦ Rom WoSt2.c) den markschalk] Hapten den marschalk Pr; Hapten marschalckh von Pappenhaim Wo; Hapten marschalckh von Pappenheim korr. zu marschalckh von Pappenheim St2.d) folgt und darnach ainer in frantzesesch K; folgt unnd in französesch WoSt2.
1Gemeint ist die Distanz, die eine Armbrust schießt.
2Es handelt sich um den römischen Brauch (consuetudo, mos), Hab und Gut des zum Papst gewählten Kardinals zu plündern (spoliatio). Eine entsprechende Verordnung gegen dieses Vorgehen wurde noch auf dem 5. Laterankonzil (1512–1517) unter Papst Leo X. in der 12. Sessio am 16. März 1517 (Contra invadentes domos cardinalium) erlassen (J. Wohlmuth (Hg.), Dekrete der ökumenischen Konzilien 2: Konzilien des Mittelalters (2000) S. 649f.). Zu Konstanz vgl. G. Fillastre, in: ACC 2 (1923) S. 6, 154; Aegidius Tschudis Chronicon Helveticum (Quellen zur Schweizer Geschichte N.F. I. Abt. 7, 8), bearb. von B. Stettler (1990) S. 279; H. von der Hardt, Magnum Oecumenicum Constantiense Concilium de universale ecclesiae reformatione, unione, et fide 4 (1699) S. 1473–1476; J. D. Mansi, Sacrorum conciliorum nova, et amplissima collectio 27 (1784, ND 1961) Sp. 1170. Zum Sachverhalt R. Elze, Sic transit gloria mundi. Zum Tode des Papstes im Mittelalter, in: DA 34 (1978) S. 6f. mit Anm. 19; L. Carlen, Zeremoniell und Symbolik der Päpste im 15. Jahrhundert (Vorträge der Aeneas-Silvius-Stiftung 39, 1993) S. 12; A. Paravicini Bagliani, Der Leib des Papstes. Eine Theologie der Hinfälligkeit (1997) S. 106–113, 150f., 161; W. Brandmüller, Das Konzil von Konstanz 2 S. 364; A. Rehberg, Ein „Gegenpapst“ wird kreiert. Fakten und Fiktionen in den Zeugenaussagen zur umstrittenen Wahl Urbans VI. (1378), in: Gegenpäpste. Ein unerwünschtes mittelalterliches Phänomen, hg. von H. Müller und B. Hotz (2012) S. 255f.; G. J. Schenk, Die Lesbarkeit von Zeichen der Macht S. 298; A. Frenken, Das Konstanzer Konzil S. 150f.
3Die Multilingualität der Synode kommt hier durch die mehrsprachige öffentliche Verkündung der Konklaveordnung durch ranghohe Persönlichkeiten wie den Reichsmarschall Haupt von Pappenheim und den damaligen Konstanzer Bürgermeister zum Ausdruck. Ein entsprechendes Mandat des Königs erging am 7. November 1417. Zu diesem Mandat und zur Vielsprachigkeit der Synode vgl. W. Matthiessen, Ulrich Richentals Chronik S. 138, 144; D. Girgensohn, Berichte über Konklave und Papstwahl S. 375 mit Anm. 47; J. Helmrath, Kommunikation auf den spätmittelalterlichen Konzilien, in: Die Bedeutung der Kommunikation für Wirtschaft und Gesellschaft, hg. von H. Pohl (1989) S. 135–138; A. Frenken, Der König und sein Konzil S. 219; Th. M. Buck / H. Kraume, Das Konstanzer Konzil S. 242–245, 268f.; S. Rotter-Broman, Multilingualität und Distinktion. Zur italienischen Musikkultur um 1400, in: Europäische Musikkultur im Kontext des Konstanzer Konzils, hg. von S. Morent u.a. (2017) S. 175–178. Für M. Kintzinger, Das Konzil konstruieren S. 241 war das Constantiense „ein räumlich verdichtetes Forum globaler Kommunikation“.
4Die Invokation findet sich auch in Pr, aber nicht in Wo. In G und D1 wird sie in deutscher Übertragung gegeben, in Z2 findet sie sich lateinisch: O summum bonum, pater, filius et spiritus sanctus, miserere nobis.
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Konstanzer Version (= K-Version) (page 251)
An sonnentag nach aller hailigen tag, do schluͦg unser herr der küng brief an all kilchtüren ze Costentz und gebot daran bya lib und by guͦt, das niemand solt füro gan zuͦ dem koffhuß zuͦ dem conclavi, wenn die darin käment, die darzuͦ geben warend ze erwelen, die wil sy darinn waren; und nieman übertretten noch überfaren sölt, weder gen der statt noch gen dem wasser, so verr und es geschrancket wär. Und solt ouch dazwüschen nieman kain gelöff noch kainb geschray darinn nit machen mit dehainerlay sachen. Man solt ouch fürbas zuͦ dem koufhuß by ainem armbrost verr nit mer faren oder als verr ain armbrost schiessen möcht. Es solt ouch dazwüschen nieman mer weder spilen noch karten, noch dehainerlay handspil nit tuͦn, haimlich noch offenlich, bis der bapst erwelt wurd. Undc welher ze bapst erwelt wurdc, dem solt niema in das huß loffen, noch sust nüt daruß tragen by der vordrigen buͦß; wann ze Rom sytd ist, welher ze bapst erwelt wiert, dem loft man in das huß und niempt yederman, was im werden mag1. Und hieß der küng das allenthalb durch die statt ruͦfen. Und sandt durch die statt den marschalck von Bappenhaim und der von Costentz burgermaister Hainrichen von Ulm. Und ruͦft das ain ruͦfer in latin, darnach ainer in tütsch, ainer in wälsch und darnach ainer in frantzesesch2, das es menglich wol mercken mocht.
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St. Georgener Version (G-Version) (page 251)
Nach aller hailigen tag an dem sonnentag, das was der sübend tag Octobris, do ließ unser her der küng brieff an all kilchen zuͦ Costentz schlachena und gebot by lib und guͦt, das niemant füro gan solt zuͦ dem conclavib zuͦ dem koffhuß, dann die darzuͦ gegeben wärend, alle die wyl und die cardinäl und ander herren darinnec wärend, als daz selb huß verschranket was. Und solt och niemant kain gelöff nit machen noch geschray. Und solt och niema dazwüschen spilen, weder [41r] haimlich noch offenlich, by der selben buͦß. Und welerd ze baupst wurd erwelet, daz man im in sin huße nit löffen sölt, und och niema nützf da nemen solt1 by der buͦßg. Und nach imbisß hieß er das offenlich ruͦffen. Und also rait durch die stat der burgermaisterh Hainrich von Ulm und hoptmarschalk mit prusunern und ruͦfft man das in tütschi undj in wälsch2.
Obrostesk3 guͦt, vatter, sun und hailiger gaist, erbarm dich unsk.
Note: "karten" is missing in this version
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#13
I persecuted the word "Mailand" in the 3 Richental editions A-K-G. I attempted to find something about Marziano da Tortona. The result was negative. The only Milanese person in the Richental text is an archbishop of Milan "Niclaus", but the real archbishop of the time was another person.

****************

Regesten Kaiser Sigismund 7th of May 1415
http://www.regesta-imperii.de/regesten/ ... 4e4e#rinav
Sigmund - RI XI,1 n. 1656a
1415 Mai 7, Konstanz
demütigt den Hrz. Friedrich v. Österreich-Tirol, der um Gnade fleht: Windecke 60 f.; Ulrich v. Richental 67 ff. (ohne Dat.); vgl. Aschbach 2, 78 f. (nicht Mai 5.)

Kommentar: An demselben Tage soll Sigmund nach Ulrich v. Richental 71 dem Philippo Maria Visconti die Mailänder Herzogwürde bestätigt haben!
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Richental Versions to May 7, 1415

A-version Richental 135: Darnach desselben tags, do bestätigott unßer herr der küng der herren von Mailand zuͦ ainem hertzogen.

K-Version Richental 135: Ouch uff den selben tag vor allen herren und vora der botschaft Genower, Florentzer und Venediger, do bestätgot unser herr der römsch küng den herren von Mailand zuͦ ainem hertzogen, und lechb im ouch das baner und den fan von siner hand in ains großen herren hand, der darumb des selben hertzogen von Mailand bot was. Der selb herr schwuͦr ochc an sins herren, herrend von Mailand stat, dem romschen rich ze wartend und ze dienen, als ander des richs hertzogen und fürsten gebunden sind ze tuͦnd und swerende. Und wurden ouch darumb an stet brief gemacht und versigelt.

K-version - A picture shall exist: Herzogtum Mailand bestätigt, fol. 47v.
A website claims, that this is the picture:
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-konst ... d0%26pl%3d
That is probably not true ... there is a 47, but no Milanese heraldic and the picture is signed with "die Churfürsten".

Here are 488 pictures (on 5 pages) from Richental chronica. Perhaps the picture is somewhere else.
https://www.alamy.com/search.html?page= ... bstore%3D0

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Richental Version to May 5, 1415 ... the delegations of Milan, Florence, Venice and Genova are mentioned (as for May 7 above)

A-version Richental 128: Da das unßer herr der küng innen ward, do hieß er sy mornends tzuͦ den barfußen in das revental komen1. Mornends do nam unßer herr der küng und besant des herren von Mailand, der Janner, der Venedier und Florentzer, bo[t]schaften zuͦ im in das selb revental und redt mit inn umm ander sachen wegen, und hett der stuben tür den ruggen kert vornan im winkel. Und stuͦnden die bottschaften vor im. In dem do kam hertzog Fridrich von Österrich in die stuben, und ging neben im burggraͧff Fridrich von Nürenberg, tzuͦ der andern siten hertzog Ludwig von Payern. Und als bald sy zuͦ der tür hin in komen, do machot man inn ain wyte. Und knüwoten all dry nider, das die alle wol sahend, die vor dem kung in der stuben stuͦndenta. Enmitten in der stuben, do knüwotend glich wie vor und stuͦndent widerumm uff, und knüwotend für den küng. Und do keret sich erst der kung umm. Do sprach hertzog Ludwig: Machtiger küng, hie ist kommen für üwer gnad unßerb öham hertzog Fridrich und wil sich an üwer gnad ergeben und wil üch sweren und tuͦn und halten, wes diser brief sait, der hie nach geschriben staͧtt, als wir dann des vormaͧls mit üwer gnad überkommen sind. Do sprach unßer herr der kung: Öham und unßer och des hailgen richs fürst hertzog Fridrich, wöllen ir och daz tuͦn? Do antwortt hertzog Fridrich, er wölte daz tuͦn. Do sprach der kung erbärmklich: Daz ist mir laid, daz ir diß ye verschuldet haben. Und also swuͦr do hertzog Fridrich disen brief, der hienach geschriben ist, ze halten vor menglich, wann vil großer herren in der stuben waren. Und ist diß der brief ...

Richental to the accusation on Jan Hus. A "Niclaus", archbishop of Milan, is mentioned as an active part. The current archbishop of Milan is noted as "Bartolommeo Capra (1414–1433)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Cat ... e_of_Milan The extant Richental versions are all written at a later date, so name errors are said to be not rare. Italian wiki has a biography to Bartolommeo Capra:
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolomeo_della_Capra
Arcivescovo di Milano - I primi difficili anni (1411-1417)
Il 7 febbraio 1414, dopo la morte di Francesco Crippa, Bartolomeo della Capra venne confermato ufficialmente arcivescovo dall'antipapa Giovanni XXIII (questi temeva che il Capra, per la sua ambiguità, fosse favorevole invece al papa romano, Gregorio XII). Nonostante tutto, Giovanni II Visconti si oppose al suo ingresso in Milano, obbligando il Capra a rimanere fuori Milano. Il problema fu risolto con la deposizione di Giovanni XXIII in occasione del Concilio di Costanza, il quale confermò (nella XIV sessione del 4 luglio 1417) Bartolomeo Capra quale legittimo arcivescovo e depose il rivale Giovanni Visconti[5]. Il suo ruolo al Concilio di Costanza, inoltre, fu assai rilevante. Eletto, insieme al cardinale Giordano Orsini, Commissario Generale del Concilio, il Capra si mise in mostra per le sue abilità politiche e diplomatiche[6]. Confermato poi quale legittimo arcivescovo di Milano, il Capra divenne anche l'ambasciatore ufficiale del duca Filippo Maria Visconti[6]. Ebbe, inoltre, un ruolo rilevante nel processo contro Giovanni XXIII, in quanto rilasciò una propria dichiarazione contro il papa pisano, accusandolo dei seguenti misfatti che vennero annotati nei L d'accusa:
«Et audivit, quod cognovit Bononie tres sorores et unum masculum fratrem earum et matrem, et finaliter per volgares fuit dictum, si pater affuisset, similiter partem suam ab eo reportaret»
«E ha udito che a Bologna avesse avuto rapporti con tre sorelle, e con un loro fratello maschio, e con la madre, e alla fin fine da parte della gente del popolo era stato detto che se fosse stato presente anche il padre, similmente anche questi si sarebbe preso da lui la sua parte!»
(Bartolomeo Capra, Acta Consilli Costanciensis, 16 maggio 1415)

Missioni diplomatiche e attività pastorale
Il Capra poté quindi, con il decreto conciliare, prendere possesso definitivo della cattedra ambrosiana, divenendo uno dei più importanti consiglieri politici e religiosi di Filippo Maria Visconti e dell'imperatore Sigismondo, viaggiando per tutta Europa. È ovvio immaginare che, preso dalla frenesia della politica internazionale, l'arcivescovo si curò ben poco delle questioni religiose e pastorali della sua arcidiocesi: si affidò soprattutto al suo vicario, l'abate Beteto Trivulzio[7]. Alcune date rilevanti che lo videro partecipe in prima persona di importanti eventi: accolse Martino V, di ritorno da Costanza, a Milano, ove procedette alla consacrazione dell'altare del Duomo (16 ottobre 1418); incoronò Sigismondo come re d'Italia (25 novembre 1431) .....
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A-version Richental 156 ... the topics are Jan Hus and the accusations against him. Jan Hus is still living and was later burned at 6th of July 1415.
Und gabend ain recht urtail uber inn. Des ersten, als er ain priester gewihet was, daz man inn degradieren [133] solt und im sin wihe aba nen1. Do stuͦnd zuͦ [imb] herr Niclaus, der groß maister und ertzbischoff zuͦ Mailand2, zwen cardinäl und zwen bischoff und zwen wichbischoff, und leitend inn an als ain priester und zugend inn wider ab, als mit gebett, und wuͦschen im sin karacteres3 ab. Do macht er ain gespött daruß. Do nun daz verging, do gaben sy ain urtail über inn also, daz er wär ain kätzerc, und ainr der gestraft solt werden umb sin boßhaitc. Und empfalhen inn dem weltlichen rechten. Und batend unßern herren den küng und das weltlich recht, daz man inn nit tötet, und inn sust behielt. Do sprach der kung zuͦ hertzog Ludwigen: Sid ich der bin, der daz weltlich schwertt inn haltet: Lieber öham, hertzog Ludwig, unßer und des hailgen römschen richs kurfürst und unßer ertztruchsäß, so nement inn und tuͦnd im als ainem kätzer an unßer statt.
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A-version Richental 206 ... the date is meanwhile 8th(?) of March, 1417, and the session is about pope Benedict, who still resists to give up his state as a pope.
Uff den achtenden tag im Mertzena anno Dni. MCCCCXVII, do ward ain sessio über baͧpst Benedictum, wann er vormaͧls gebannet waz, und was sin zil uß, als er sich dann verantwort sölt haben. Und also ging uss der selben sessio der cardinal Florentinus, der cardinal de Comittibus, der ertzbischoff von Mailand, der bischoff von Mersbungenb und noch zwen bischoff usser dem münster, uffc die Fülli1, und ruͦftend im ze dry malen, ob er sich versprechen wölt oder ieman anders von sinen wegen. Also kam nieman. Do hiessen sy über inn lüten Judas fluͦch2 und wurffend über inn stain und brinnend kertzen. Und giengend wider in daz münster in die session. Darinn ward er vernüntott und verfluͦcht3.
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A-version Richental 283 It's meanwhile Carnival ("mannvaßnacht") 1418 and the bishop of Passow (Georg von Hochenloch ... https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_von_Hohenlohe) is send to Milan (Filippo Maria Visconti). A lot of nobility on 2000 horses accompany the start of this journey (likely it's still an adventurous attempt to cross the Alps so early in the year). Georg himself had 100 horses, when he appeared in Konstanz.
Uff fritag vor mannvaßnacht, do santend inn bottschaft unßer hailger vatter der bapst und unßer herr der küng denab ersammen dem bischoffb von Passowa zuͦ dem herren von Mailand. Und rittend mit im und gabend1 im glait wol ain mil wegs verr von Costentz unßer herr der küng und vil gaistlicher prelaten und weltlich fürsten und herren wol mit zway tusend pfärden.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#14
Huck wrote:
08 Sep 2020, 09:27
I persecuted the word "Mailand" in the 3 Richental editions A-K-G. I attempted to find something about Marziano da Tortona. The result was negative. The only Milanese person in the Richental text is an archbishop of Milan "Niclaus", but the real archbishop of the time was another person.

****************

Regesten Kaiser Sigismund 7th of May 1415
http://www.regesta-imperii.de/regesten/ ... 4e4e#rinav

Thanks for looking! I can't get the regesta.imperii.de link to work.

Marziano would probably not be Marziano "da Tortona," but more "Marziano Rampini" (Martianus Rampinus) with some form of Sancto Alosio. "Alosio" is usally taken to be from Louis, often Aloysio, Aloxio, Allosio, etc. Sanctus Aloysius. (H)Enrico Rampini was bishop of Tortona in 1415.

Maybe the Germans would take his name to be Martin.
Image

Re: Council of Constance

#15
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:
08 Sep 2020, 10:02
I can't get the regesta.imperii.de link to work.
They're working on the site and have "improved" it. I've myself problems.

That's "search" ...
http://www.regesta-imperii.de/regesten/suche.html

That's seach "Visconti" (or something else) in Schnellsuche (quick search)
http://www.regesta-imperii.de/regesten/ ... 6c07#rinav
Visconti has 466 results. The results are sorted according the time line.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#16
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:
05 Sep 2020, 18:48
I sometimes wonder if Marziano attended Constance. There is no record of him in 1415 at all.

He was a witness to an act of fealty to Filippo Maria in Milan on 5 November 1414, and we don't see him again until 17 February 1416 in Milan, when is a witness to an extension of Filippo Maria's truce with the Marquis of Monferrato.
If Marciano indeed was in Constance ...
... then one could ask, when he traveled. John XXIII wished to start at 1414 November 1, the real start had been at 1414 november 5. Then Martiano was still in Milan.
The most interesting date is 5th/7th day of May, cause then the Italian groups definitely were there.

Chrysolares died 15th of April 1415 (buried 25th April) ... https://www.foto-schuhmacher.de/i/beise ... loras.html
Earlier (old text) I noted:
"1400: The great Greek scholar Manuel Chrysolares, after teaching 3 years in Florence from 1397 - 1400, resides and teaches in Pavia with the great Visconti library, probably occasionally also in Milan and other surrounding cities from 1400 - 1403. It seems, that the enthusiastic Uberto becomes his major follower. In 1402 Uberto works with Manuel Chrysolares on a translation of Platon's Republic, the text is finished later by Pier Candido Decembrio in 1439 (or earlier ?). Uberto and Chrysolares communicate via letters in the later time till the death of Chrysolares (died 1415 in Constance as messenger of the Greek emperor).
1402: Giangaleazzo dies and the political change causes much trouble in Milan. Probably as one of the results of this change Chrysolares leaves Pavia."
Chrysolares once had been in Milan. Is it possible, that there was a relation between Martiano and Chrysolares? It comes to my mind, that 1403 is the year, when Michelino painted the Visconti-genealogy. Had this something to do with the condition, that Chrysolares was in Pavia/Milan? I remember, that Ross stated once, that the content of the genealogy (with its Greek connections) was already prepared otherwise. Nonetheless the actual genealogy project might have been inspired by the presence of Chrysolares.

Treccani.it ...http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/mar ... ntesca%29/
Le fonti della biografia di M., a parte i documenti della cancelleria viscontea che testimoniano la sua qualità e attività di segretario ducale, si riducono ad alcuni accenni contenuti nella vita di Filippo Maria Visconti del Decembrio e all'elogio funebre dettato da Gasparino Barzizza. Studiò a Tortona, poi a Pavia, a Padova, a Firenze.
There is the possibility, that Marzino was in Pavia during 1401-1403.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#17
From the biography of Carlo Malatesta di Rimini
Extract of https://condottieridiventura.it/carlo-m ... di-rimini/
(1408) Nov. in Romagna
He hosts in Rimini Pope Gregory XII who from Siena, no longer safe for the pontiff, moved to his city. The Malatesta returns to Milan and makes an agreement with the castellans of Porta Giovia, rebels against the ducal policy, with the intermediation of Bernardo della Serra, governor of Asti on behalf of the Duke of Orleans.

1409 Feb. in Romagna
He is engaged in Cesena in talks with the cardinal legate, Baldassarre Cossa, representative of the antipope Alexander V elected by the Council of Pisa. He was forced to leave Milan due to the prevalence of the Ghibelline faction.

1409 Apr. in Brescia - Milan Lombardy Tuscany Romagna
He still faces Facino Cane with his brother Pandolfo; on Easter day he clashes with opponents in Rovegnate. The following day he reconciles with the enemy and together they prevent Milan from being occupied by the French of Boucicaut, called in the meantime by the Duke Giovanni Maria Visconti. Malatesta goes to the Council of Pisa and defends the cause of Gregory XII, which he soon reaches in Rimini.
Ross ... when is the precise date, when Marciana da Tortona leaves his occupation for Gregory XII?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Pisa
The council of Pisa started March 25 in 1409 ...
The new Pope Alexander was elected June 26 in 1409 ...
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#18
After 4 May 1408 and before 2 Feburary 1409.

On 4 May in Lucca, Gregory authorized the rule for a an order of hermits that Marziano was a witness to. Shortly after in this month, Gregory created new cardinals. Since he had sworn an oath at his election, which included the promise not to create new cardinals, many of those present decided to break with him and left the city. This led to the council of PIsa the next year, which elected a new pope, without either Gregory or Benedict XIII (Avignon) present. Gregory himself left Lucca in July 1408 (check dates) and quickly ended up in Rimini.

Marziano is next recorded in Tortona on 2 February 1409, where he is the representative of the Rampini family, among five Ghibelline families who form a pro-Visconti league, against the Genovese Guelphs.

So I think that Marziano must have been among those who left Gregory in May or June of 1408. The stiuation in his homeland was urgent, and he had to bring his diplomatic knowledge.

Gregory XII itinerary in 1407-1409 -

Gregory XII left Rome 9 August 1407
In Viterbo 11-31 August
In Siena 4 September 1407-23 January 1408
In Lucca 28 January-14 July 1408
In Siena 19 July-3 November (26 October?)
In Rimini. Cividale del Friuli 26 May 1409.

Gherardo Ortalli, "Gregorio XII, papa" in Dizionario biografico degli Italiani (2002) https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/pa ... iografico)
Per G. XII la situazione non era migliore; l'insoddisfazione nei suoi confronti giunse al punto di rottura quando il 9 maggio 1408, mentre si trovava ancora a Lucca, per rafforzare la sua posizione volle creare quattro nuovi cardinali scelti fra le persone a lui più vicine, contravvenendo con ciò pure all'impegno di non procedere a nuove nomine che potevano rendere più complesso il cammino verso l'unità. La reazione del S. Collegio di obbedienza romana fu immediata e l'11 maggio la maggioranza dei suoi cardinali abbandonò G. XII ritirandosi a Pisa.
Tra gli eletti del 9 maggio vi erano anche due nipoti di G. XII: Antonio Correr e Gabriele Condulmer (divenuto poi papa nel 1431 col nome di Eugenio IV).
In ogni caso le nomine cardinalizie del maggio 1408 parvero andare oltre il limite del tollerabile e finirono per avere contraccolpi davvero pesanti. Per rinsaldare una situazione che andava facendosi sempre più critica G. XII nominò altri nove cardinali nel settembre del 1408, ma la cosa risultò un nuovo segnale di debolezza piuttosto che di maggiore forza.

Intanto le insoddisfazioni dei prelati delle due obbedienze si combinavano in un impegno comune che avrebbe portato al concilio di Pisa. Ai cardinali che avevano abbandonato in maggio G. XII si unirono in giugno quelli che avevano lasciato Benedetto XIII e insieme concordarono sulla necessità di un concilio che ponesse fine allo scisma, impegnandosi in un notevole sforzo per la sua migliore riuscita.
"For Gregory XII the situation was no better [than Benedict XIII in Avignon]; the dissatisfaction with him reached the breaking point when, on 9 May 1408, while he was still in Lucca, in order to strengthen his position he decided to create four new cardinals chosen from among the people closest to him, in so doing also contravening the commitment not to make new appointments that could make the path towards unity more difficult. The reaction of the Holy College of Roman obedience was immediate and on 11 May the majority of its cardinals abandoned Gregory XII and withdrew to Pisa.
"Among those elected on 9th May there were also two nephews of Gregory XII: Antonio Correr and Gabriele Condulmer (who later became Pope in 1431 under the name of Eugenio IV).
"In any case, the cardinals' appointments of May 1408 seemed to go beyond the tolerable limit and ended up having very serious repercussions. In order to consolidate a situation that was becoming increasingly critical, Gregory XII appointed nine more cardinals in September 1408, but this was a new sign of weakness rather than greater strength.
"In the meantime the dissatisfactions of the prelates of the two obediences were combined in a common commitment that would lead to the Council of Pisa. The cardinals who had left Gregory XII in May were joined in June by those who had left Benedict XIII, and together they agreed on the need for a council that would put an end to the schism, committing themselves in a considerable effort for its better success."
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Re: Council of Constance

#19
Thanks, I had detected these dates already in the Marziano thread in the post from 28th of March 2020.
Are there any other factual dates with the direct participation of Marciano before May 1408? Or are the related activities (studies in various cities, birth date in the family chart) all organized by later reports?

The development of a third pope with Milanese roots (Pietro of Candia as Alexander V, actually with a birth at the island of Crete, Greece, but already a long time in Milan since 1386 or even earlier) during the council of Pisa (1409). Alexander died at 3./4. May 1410, possibly poisoned by Baldassare Cosssa.
English wiki to Gregory XII describes the scene of 4th of May 1408:
The cardinals of Gregory XII openly showed their dissatisfaction at this manoeuvring and gave signs of their intention to abandon him. On 4 May 1408, Gregory XII convened his cardinals at Lucca and ordered them not to leave the city under any pretext. He tried to supplement his following by creating four of his Corraro nephews cardinals – including the future Pope Eugene IV, despite his promise in the conclave that he would create no new cardinals. Seven of the cardinals secretly left Lucca and negotiated with the cardinals of Benedict XIII concerning the convocation of a general council by them, at which both pontiffs should be deposed and a new one elected. Consequently, they convoked the Council of Pisa and invited both pontiffs to be present. Neither Gregory XII nor Benedict XIII appeared.
It's strange, that the date 4th of May appears twice.
Pietro of Candia was in Prague in 1395 and traded the duke title for Giangaleazzo against a high sum of money. The success in this matter caused indrectly the abdication of the Roman king Wenzel in the year 1400, the German nobility.
https://karolinum.cz/data/clanek/3130/H ... 23-130.pdf ... see sentence "(Uberto) Decembrio followed the bishop (= Pietro da Candia, here Peter Filargis of Candia) during his diplomatic mission to Prague seeking the title of duke for Gian Galeazzo Visconti (1351-1402)" at the first page. At the second page is the following snippet:
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Uberto Decembrio was father of Pier Candid Decembrio, who reported the existence of the Michelino deck at the court of Filippo Maria Visconti (Pier Candid got his rare name from Pietro da Candia, which expresses, that Uberto Decembrio and Pietro da Candia had a close friendship with each other.
Possibly Uberto stayed 3 years, possibly also Pietro da Candia stayed 3 years.
Here is a biography of a very useful website about cardinal-biographies, which had disappeared. One still can find it at archive.org. Pietro da Candia had this text
https://web.archive.org/web/20120110164 ... m#Filargis
(6) 6. FILARGIS, O.F.M., Pietro (ca. 1339-1410)

Birth. Ca. 1339, Kare, Crete (then Venetian named Candia). Of a very poor family, he was orphaned; he was sheltered and taught by a Franciscan friar. His last name is also listed as Filargo, Philargis, Philarghi, Philaretus, Philarete and Philargos. He is also listed as Pietro di Candia and Petrus de Candia. Called the Cardinal of Milan.

Education. Entered the Order of the Friars Minor (Franciscans) at the convent of Candia, ca. 1357. Studied at Padua, Norwich and Oxford University, where he obtained a licentiate in theology; and at La Sorbonne University, Paris, where he obtained a doctorate in theology in 1381. Magister in theology.

Priesthood. Ordained (no further information found). He taught at Franciscan houses of study in Russia, Bohemia and Poland. He lecture on the "Sentences" of Peter Abelardo in Paris, 1378-1380. Professor of theology at the University of Pavia from 1386. Protégé and privy counselor of Gian Galeazzo Visconti.

Episcopate. Elected bishop of Piacenza, October 5, 1386. Transferred to the see of Brescia in 1387. Transferred to the see of Vicenza on January 23, 1388. Transferred to the see of Novara, September 18, 1389. In 1395, he carried out a diplomatic mission for his patron that obtained for the latter the title of duke of Milan from German King Wenceslas. Promoted to the metropolitan see of Milan, May 17, 1402. Ambassador of the duke of Milan in Bohemia.

Cardinalate. Created cardinal priest of Ss. XII Apostoli in the consistory of June 12, 1405; he retained the administration of his see. Named legate in Lombardy; he left Viterbo on November 23, 1406. Impatient with Pope Gregory XII for delaying the end of the schism, he broke up with the pope in May 1408 and collaborated with Cardinal Baldassare Cossa, future Antipope John XXIII, in convoking the Council of Pisa. Deprived of the administration of Milan by Pope Gregory XII in November 1408. Participated in the conclave of 1409 and was elected antipope.

Papacy. Elected Antipope Alexander V on June 26, 1409 at the Council of Pisa, in the archbishop's palace; after the deposition of Pope Gregory XII and Antipope Benedict XIII by the council. Took the name Alexander V. Crowned on July 7, 1409, at the cathedral of Pisa, by Cardinal Amedeo Saluzzo, protodeacon of S. Maria Nuova. He did not create any cardinals.

Death. May 3, 1410, in the palace of Cardinal Baldassare Cossa, in Bologna; some sources, probably falsely, indicate that he was poisoned by order of the cardinal. His body was embalmed by the famous physician Pietro di Argeleta; the verbal process of the operation is still preserved. Buried in the church of S. Francesco, Bologna.

Bibliography. Cardella, Lorenzo. Memorie storiche de' cardinali della Santa Romana Chiesa. Rome : Stamperia Pagliarini, 1793, III, 326-329; Chacón, Alfonso. Vitæ, et res gestæ Pontificvm Romanorum et S. R. E. Cardinalivm ab initio nascentis Ecclesiæ vsque ad Vrbanvm VIII. Pont. Max. 2 volumes. Romae : Typis Vaticanis, 1630, II, col. 721-722 and 773-784; "Essai de liste générale des cardinaux. VI. Les cardinaux du Grand Schisme (1378-1417)". Annuaire Pontifical Catholique 1931. Paris : Maison de la Bonne Presse, 1931, p. 140; Eubel, Conradus and Gulik, Guglielmus van. Hierarchia Catholica Medii Aevi. Volumen I (1198-1431). Münich : Sumptibus et Typis Librariae Regensbergianae, 1913; reprint, Padua : Il Messagero di S. Antonio, 1960, pp. 26, 40, 147, 333, 372, 401 and 526; Ilari, Annibale. "Alessandro V." Mondo vaticano. Passato e presente. Città del Vaticano : Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1995, p., 44-45; Kelly, John Norman Davidson. The Oxford Dictionary of Popes. Oxford ; New York : Oxford University Press, 1986, pp. 326-327; Petrucci, Armando. "Alessandro V." Enciclopedia dei papi. 3 vols. Roma : Istituto della Enciclopedia italiana, 2000, II, 610-613.

Links. Biography, in English; biography, in English (Britannica); his image and biography, in English; his engraving, arms and biography, in Italian; biographical entry, in Italian; biography and bibliography, in English; and his engraving, Fondazione Marco Besso, Rome.
I found some details, which aren't given in other biographies, for instance his presence in Russia and possibly also a presence in Bohemia before 1394/95. As he was also active in England and France he had indeed advanced international experiences.
Biographies of Cardinals of 14th century:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120114121 ... es-xiv.htm
Biographies of Cardinals of 15th century:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120114121 ... ies-xv.htm
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#20
FILARGO da CANDIA fra PIETRO (+1410 mag. 3 a Bologna – creato da Innocenzo VII nel 1405 giugno 12); Arcivescovo di Milano – Maestro di Teologia - Frati Minori; Dodici Apostoli, 1405 giugno 12; antipapa ALESSANDRO V eletto 1409 giugno 26; (Assente all’elezione dell’antipapa Gregorio XII lo lasciò per l’Obbedienza Pisana dove per l’unione della chiesa trattò con i cardinali di obbedienza all’antipapa Benedetto XIII).

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http://www.araldicavaticana.com/filargo ... tro__p.htm
Huck
http://trionfi.com

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