Split Topic

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I have split these posts about the Pope and the use of Beards and Crosiers on some depictions in tarot from another thread, I apologise for some of the continuity not being clear as a consequence.

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

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Good afternoon Robert...
Sorry sweetie (friendly said ),I did not mentioned in which cases I saw it !
What a stupid I was here...

I saw the crosier in this decks :Vieville,Noblet,Dodal and both Payen for example.


So aside Conver or Pierre Madenie which others cases you know with the triple cross ?

;)
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

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EUGIM wrote:Good afternoon Robert...
Sorry sweetie (friendly said ),I did not mentioned in which cases I saw it !
What a stupid I was here...

I saw the crosier in this decks :Vieville,Noblet,Dodal and both Payen for example.


So aside Conver or Pierre Madenie which others cases you know with the triple cross ?

;)
Generally, Tarot de Marseille II is triple cross and croiser is Tarot de Marseille I. Not to say that Paris or Geoffroy are either.

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

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jmd wrote:It's also interesting that in the Paris he is wearing sandals (something that is clearly showing only, it seems, in this deck).

I also agree with SteveM that there is a (semblance of a) pyramid beside the Sphinx.

The key of St Peter is also clear... as is his staff... but the staff's type is unclear - though I would expect it to be a triple cross based on the Geoffroy. Also, his head-dress is the triple crown (rather than the bishop's), so in the sequence of shown Popes, it is the Noblet that seems 'out of whack' with triple crown and crook (yet it remains my preferred rendition)!
But if you add the Cary Sheet, then we have the Crosier again (assuming that the figure with the crosier is the pope).

So we have Cary Sheet, Noblet, Vieville, Payen/Dodal with the crosier and Geoffroy, Paris, Chosson/Conver with the triple cross.

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

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EUGIM wrote:The point is that it is a Crossier s Bishop,so not a Pope insignia...
It could be both. I too find it very interesting that on many Tarot de Marseille I style decks the pope is holding a crossier. Why? I can think of a few reasons to suggest.

1. It really is a Bishop. The problem here is that sometimes, (but not always) he is also wearing the triple crown of the Pope. Popes can hold crossiers, but bishops can't wear triple crowns.

2. Historically, Popes actually did hold the crossier (as bishop of Rome, I imagine), so it might be a reference to that.

3. It is actually a particular pope being shown, who is known for holding a crossier. I've seen some before on wikipedia, but it has been years since I looked for it. It was a tradition that stopped and was replaced by the triple cross.

4. It's another historical figure, like Augustine, who is famous for holding the crossier, and it was mistaken as a pope.

5. The Pope and "Popess" are actually two Popes, and the crossier is one way of telling the two apart.

I do think it is interesting that the Pope is sometimes shown with bishop's hat and crossier, and like you Eugim, I wonder why.

Re: The Tarot de Paris (The Parisian Tarot)

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If he is not a Bishop,why he is bearded ?

Popes from :
a- 1362 to 1523 : shaved
b- 1523 to 1700 : bearded
c- 23/11/1700 till now : shaved from Clément XI

-The Tarot de Marseille seems to have a medieval,gothic art style,instead of the italians decks prior of it which have a renaissance art style.
The Universe is like a Mamushka.