Re: Tarocchi goes west

sandyh wrote:
24 Nov 2018, 01:58
I have just seen about 30 cancers, and a smaller number of scorpios, in books of hours. The scorpios look just like the lobster on the card, if you take off the hooked tail. Scorpios are usually shown with the body vertical and the head on top, and thus the resemblance to the card is immediate and striking. Cancers look like crabs, and are shown with the head to the right or left.
….if you take of the hooked tail :D

While the cancer sign is typically a crab, it was quite often represented by some other crustacean more akin to a lobster or crayfish. The creature on the Tarot de Marseille Moon is most clearly a crustacean, and in no way could be taken as a representation of a Scorpion.

Some examples of Cancer as more lobster like: ... &cat_7=618
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Tarocchi goes west

Sandy, you are absolutelyl right. It can be complicated on the BnF site. The fastest way is to know which manuscript you are looking for, by call number. Subject searches give varying results, depending on how imaginative, and patient, your searching is.

One way to search is at Gallica, ... de=desktop
in the top bar type « heures (livres d’) »

This link below might take you straight to all the results of that seach (663, not necessarily all relevant to your purposes) ... &suggest=0

Another way is by the BnF portal “Mandragore”, which allows you to specify texts with images –

The sets of parameters can be complicated, but it pays to play with them. The word “Index” will open a box that allows you to select items in the category it is beside, so the Index to “Auteur” will open up authors’ names.
For subjects, on the left set of search bars, under “Manuscrits”, the third search box, “Titre d’usage”, click on the Index and scroll down to various titles of Livres d’heures.
For instance, there is “grandes heures d'anne de bretagne » ; click on that it puts the term in the search box.
Then click “Chercher” in the field of the boxes (not the bottommost “Chercher” which is a different field); this is beside “Effacer”.
This will open a page with one manuscript, “Latin 9474”; click on that and it opens up a page with the choice “Images” or “Légends” (descriptions), and choose “Images”.
Finally, you get to a page with images, 9 at a time, with 396 total in this case, over 44 pages.

I hope this helps, I haven't tried it for this subject.

Re: Tarocchi goes west

Thanks so much for this. I have gotten pretty good with the "advanced search" at Gallica, but I knew nothing of Madragore.

For the manuscripts in libraries in France other than the BnF, I have found a very good index called La Bibliothèque virtuelle des manuscrits médiévaux
I find I do a little better by using Google's "deep search" or inurl" feature, like this: ... lt+Tournai

There are for France if anything too many indices. Another good one just for manuscripts is called Initiale.
Again I find I use Google deep search: ... 9tramorphe

For Switzerland there is the excellent e-codices ... rentPage=3

For Britain the British Library and the Bodlean are great, but I have found no index yet for all the smaller libraries.

For Germany there is the very comprehensive handschriftencensus, for manuscripts in any country, but only those in German. More are in Latin than in German and I have found no comparable index for Latin.
In this case I can't work the search feature at all, although the list of libraries is useful. I deep-search: ... +Gebetbuch
Searching for phrase "Farb-Abbildung des Codex" limits the hits to items which have been digitized and placed online.
Otherwise every town and university in Germany has a library, but each one has its own quirks which must be learned, often for a reward of only one or two manuscripts without any pictures in them. Stuttgart however was well worthwhile.

The Austrian national library wants me to register and create an account. I haven't tried this yet. The library called Albertina lets me in without.

For Italy I have only the Biblioteca Estense
I have not found any other library, nor any national index.

Spain is a project: no results yet.

For the USA there is the Morgan library, and Harvard, and a library called Walters in, I think, Baltimore. There are some things that call themselves national indices but they don't work. I have not done well, yet, in the Met, which has so many decks of cards. Either the Library of Congress doesn't have all that much, or I can't figure out the index.

I have been in the national libraries of Poland and Hungary (which has those great B-order tarochhi) but without much found yet.

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