Re: Lot book collection (in work) ; theme lotbook

#11
Another text of interest ... (longer description of a book of 2012 with 371 pages, "Kulturgeschichte der mittelalterlichen Wahrsagerei")
https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ ... awler=true

page 66/130 or page 270-274 or search for name of the author "Tuczay"

At another place ( https://epdf.pub/magie-und-magier-im-mittelalter.html ) Tuczay notes to the researched Sandkunst-text ..
Die beliebte Sandkunst der 16 Richter war in lateinischer Sprache abgefasst und wurde im Spätmittelalter deutsch bearbeitet.
... which means, that it was originally a popular Latin text, which was translated to German in the late middle age

Marco Heiles has a list of translations for the Sandkunst der 16 Richter (tere was not only one). Further he notes, that these texts are not Geomancy texts, but lot books.
https://books.google.de/books?id=1n1fDw ... er&f=false
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lot book collection (in work) ; theme lotbook

#12
Huck wrote:
13 May 2020, 08:25

Marco Heiles has a list of translations for the Sandkunst der 16 Richter (tere was not only one). Further he notes, that these texts are not Geomancy texts, but lot books.
https://books.google.de/books?id=1n1fDw ... er&f=false
Here is the Tübinger Hausbuch, Md 2
http://idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/opendigi/Md2

Folio 272 has children of the Moon, with a table magician doing the cup and balls trick.

Geomancy starts on folio 148.
Image

Re: Lot book collection (in work) ; theme lotbook

#13

148r-250r Die 16 geomantischen Figuren 
148r-169r Ordnung der Figuren 
169v-250r Deutung der Figuren 
169v-174r 1. Kapitel 
174v-179r 2. Kapitel 
179v-184r 3. Kapitel 
184v-189r 4. Kapitel 
189v-199r 5. Kapitel 
199v-209r 6. Kapitel 
209v-219r 7. Kapitel 
219v-229r 8. Kapitel 
229v-239r 9. Kapitel 
239v-250r 10. Kapitel 

250v-252v Leerseiten 
253r-272r Von den Planeten 
253r-265v Der Lauf der Planeten durch die Tierkreiszeichen 
266r-272r Die Planeten und ihre Kinder 
272v-311v Astronomie und Geomantie
Likely 2 different texts from possibly 2 different sources?

Nice finding, anyway.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lot book collection (in work) ; theme lotbook

#15
Marco Heiles, Losbuch Katalog Nr. 24 "Losbuch mit 36 Fragen"

= Vienna, Österreichische Nationalbibliothek, Codex Vindobonensis 2652, Losbuch in deutschen Reimpaaren, Facsimile Edition
https://www.facsimilefinder.com/facsimi ... -facsimile

Various pictures of the Facsimile Edition
https://www.facsimilefinder.com/facsimi ... d=1&pid=11
Image
from Deutschsprachige Literatur des Mittelalters: Studienauswahl aus dem 'Verfasserlexikon' (Band 1-10), Bände 1-10
by Burghart Wachinger, Walter de Gruyter, 06.02.2013 - 580 Seiten

Nr. 4. in the snapshot relates to Katalog Nr. 24 "Losbuch mit 36 Fragen", which is Codex Vindobonensis 2652
Nr. 3. in the snapshot relates to Katalog Nr. 7 "Losbuch mit 32 Fragen", which are 2 manuscripts, one from Heidelberg and the other from Olmütz (Bohemia).
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lot book collection (in work) ; theme lotbook

#17
I've identified the same, but I'm still involved in finding some more material (see above).
Wachinger declares, that the texts of 3. and 4. are very similar ... I know that for the both texts from Heidelberg and Olmütz (3.), for the Vienna text (4., actually from Limburg) I can't see this in the moment (not enough information).

Heidelberg (cpg 7) and Olmütz (Olomouc K 14905) have a close relationship to the Bollstatter version with 22x22x22x22 scheme (in Munich cgm 312) , which was my major interest in the "Pope and the Donkey" thread. For the moment I don't know, what number Heiles has in his catalog text for this object. Also I don't know, where the Fränkische Losbuch is, the printed version (Lot book version of c. 1520, in Landshut printed by Johann Weißenburger) and a version from Trier, which all had some relation to the Bollstatter version.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lot book collection (in work) ; theme lotbook

#18
just a notebook for myself ...

Eyn Loszbuch Aus Der Karten Gemacht by Adolf Hofmeister, 1848-1904 ; Kartenlosbuch of 1510
https://archive.org/details/EynLoszbuch ... t/mode/2up

Kartenloosbuch drinnen aus H. schrifft vil laster gestrafft und heylsamer Leeren angezeigt werden (etc.)
Strassburg: Kammerlander, 1543
http://digital.onb.ac.at/OnbViewer/view ... Z161352001
An older note:

Minnereden im Druck: Studien zur Gattungsgeschichte im Zeitalter des Medienwechsels
Jacob Klingner
Erich Schmidt Verlag GmbH & Co KG, 14.12.2010 - 448 Seiten
https://books.google.de/books?id=s38YfM ... ch&f=false
Image


The author makes a very competent impression and the text is from 2010. In a bypassing sentence he remarks something about the Mainzer Kartelosbuch and gives at its printing date 1486 ... instead the usual 1505-1510. This sounds, as if there is a new research to the Kartenlosbuch with a sure result: 1486.
Marco Heiles at page 212-215 of his book adds ...
Image

https://books.google.de/books?id=1n1fDw ... hs&f=false
It's not clear to me, what actually is the context, but Heiles calls the Kartenlosbuch a Nachdruck (a reprint), indicating that something had happened already in the 1480s (not only, that the text was taken from an animal-losbuch of Martin Flach, which is already known to us).

Fränkisches Losbuch (1425-1450), new version with colors
https://digital-beta.staatsbibliothek-b ... 057&DMDID=
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Lot book collection (in work) ; theme lotbook

#19
Huck wrote:
13 May 2020, 00:40
Probably the 16 figures of Geomancy. Sandkunst = Geomancy, cause you make points in the sand to determine the Geomancy figures.
I remember, that the terminus "Richter" = judges was used in geomantic contexts, but I don't remember, if this addressed the figures or a specific function. Agrippa used 4 Mütter and 4 Töchter (mothers and daughters), another system uses 4 Zeugen und 4 Richter (witnesses and judges).
https://books.google.de/books?id=8F94Dw ... er&f=false
This terminology belongs in my opinion more to the methode of the oracle. But it is easily imaginable, that some authors used "judges" simply for the 16 figures.

My main interest is whether there was any connection to the Etruscan divination system via 16 portions of the sky, although it looks unlikely. This Princeton page on geomancy does mention horoscopes, but the method in question pointedly ignores the actual night sky:

The astrological method (which is briefly described in Turner's Of Geomancy) involves drawing up a horoscope in which the positions of the planets and signs in the houses are determined by the geomantic tableau rather than by calculations based on astronomical tables or the use of an astrolabe.
https://www.princeton.edu/~ezb/geomancy/geostep.html
Perhaps this is wholly unrelated to the 16 Richter, but it looks like any astrological component got added late and not based on any classical source:

In the Middle Ages, when geomancy was introduced to Europe where astrology was the foremost occult science, the geomantic figures obtained astrological correspondences to the Zodiac and to the planets. Based on their zodiacal correspondences, astrologers assigned new elemental rulerships (henceforth known as outer elemental rulers, whereas the previous elemental assignments will be known as inner elemental rulers) based on the element of their zodiacal ruler. The exceptions to the planetary rulerships were the figures Cauda Draconis and Caput Draconis, which were assigned to the northern and southern lunar nodes instead.

Planet * Diurnal figure * Nocturnal figure
Sun: Fortuna Major - Fortuna Minor
Moon: Populus - Via
Mercury: Albus - Conjunctio
Venus: Puella - Amissio
Mars: Puer - Rubeus
Jupiter: Acquisitio - Laetitia
Saturn: Tristitia - Carcer
Lunar nodes: Caput Draconis - Cauda Draconis

Traditionally, the energies and manifestations of the planets were different based on their declination or motion; for the planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, the diurnal energy represents the planet in direct motion, while the nocturnal energy refers to the retrograde motion of the planets. For the Moon, this was illustrated by the waxing or waning periods of the Moon, respectively; the Sun's figures were based on the Sun during the day (or northern declination) or during the night (southern declination). The zodiacal rulerships followed from the diurnal or nocturnal planetary rulership: nocturnal figures are assigned earth and water signs, while diurnal figures are assigned fire and air signs. The North Node is assigned, by Gerard of Cremona, to Sagittarius and the South Node to Virgo (for the sake of finding the ascendant in astrological traditions of geomancy). Once the zodiacal rulerships were agreed upon, all the following correspondences followed upon the geomantic figures, including what part of the body they each ruled over, different countries, planetary hours, body and character types, and so on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomantic_figures

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