Tarot History Forum

Example
Hearts

Queen


King


Knight


Page

Example

Diamonds

Queen


King


Knight


Page


Under of diamonds is now on horse but still Under the Knight

Example

Clubs

Queen


King


Knight


Page


Under of Clubs is now on horse but still Under the Knight

Aparte
Interesting to note that the Unders,all 4 lower than the Obers or Knights, two are by foot (beside horse) and two already on horse
- as if the four numerical suits were to be paired two by two
Unders beside horse : Spades and Hearts [underneath the above pair]
Unders on horse : Diamonds and Clubs [above the underneath pair]

Suggestion of pairing that we'll find differently expressed in the later Sola busca suits
and
- as if amongst the 4 numericals suits (from 10 to 1 and from 1 to 10) leaded by the Unders, 2 were somewhere "above" the two others and paired : this is suggested in the arithmological disposition of the 4 Tetractys


Maybe subjective view ... inherited from Marolles 1637 two centuries later aristocartic explication :
The other four plain suits (1) are known as swords, batons, cups and coins: each of them consists of fourteen cards : namely the King, Queen, Cavalier and Jack (2), which are also called the four honours, and the remaining cards from the Ten to the Ace. [they] are of as little use as the dregs of the people, who are much more a burden than a pleasure, especially when a player's hand contains numeral cards of every suit with few trumps(3) because in that case neither the Kings themselves with their Queens (4) nor all their realm can protect the player from total ruin, if he cannot persuade the others to redeal the cards (5).

It was quite common, that the 4 suits were parted in two groups. I France there were finally two red cards and two black cards. In one group the numbers did run from 1-10 (Aces high) and in the other from 10-1 (10s high).

Yes.
But here we have more than a simple pairing : something like a suggestion of "above the horse" (diamonds and Clunbs) and "underneath the horse" (Spades and Herats)....

Spades

Hearts



Diamonds

Clubs


On the under of clunbs , we haave a kind of "seat" to get on the horse, no? Or is it something else?

Huck wrote :
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1102&start=360#p17744

A strong iconografical hint anywhere for counting from :
1 to 10 the two numerical suits of Spades and Hearts
10 to 1 the two numerical suits of Diamonds and Clunbs

Or vice versa...

BOUGEAREL Alain wrote:Yes.

On the under of clunbs , we haave a kind of "seat" to get on the horse, no? Or is it something else?

No, that's the 4th suit sign and shall be a sort of hunting trap. The whole runs as a "hunting deck". The other suits are falcon (for hunting), a sort of crane (?) as victim of hunting and a dog.
Hunting decks were the Trionfi cards of the Northern region, likely very expensive.

Huck wrote:

BOUGEAREL Alain wrote:Yes.

On the under of clunbs , we haave a kind of "seat" to get on the horse, no? Or is it something else?

No, that's the 4th suit sign and shall be a sort of hunting trap. The whole runs as a "hunting deck". The other suits are falcon (for hunting), a sort of crane (?) as victim of hunting and a dog.
Hunting decks were the Trionfi cards of the Northern region, likely very expensive.

Ok. Thank's for the correct identification.

BOUGEAREL Alain wrote:Huck wrote :
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1102&start=360#p17744

A strong iconografical hint anywhere for counting from :
1 to 10 the two numerical suits of Spades and Hearts
10 to 1 the two numerical suits of Diamonds and Clunbs

Or vice versa...

Surely not ... the black pair is together and the red pair. In the Latin suits, the weapons are paired, and coins and cups.

Martiano da Tortona in the description of the Michelino deck.

However, the order of these Birds is, although none of their type has right over another, yet this arrangement they have alternately – Eagles and Turtledoves lead from many to few: that is to say it goes better for us when many cultivate virtue and continence; but for Phoenices and Doves, the few rule over the many, which is to say that, the more the followers of riches and pleasure are visible, the more they lead to the deterioration of our station.

http://trionfi.com/martiano-da-tortona- ... -16-heroum