Re: The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D

#53
Adrian Goldwetter wrote:What was the question?
The question is, if the Meerwunder story connected to Theodolinda took some influence on the early (or later) heraldry of the Visconti.
If you remember: You offered the story of a sarazen helmet as an explanation for the Visconti viper (you're not the only one), connected to rather wild personal speculations ...
The Visconti Tarots that you mention were not of perfect structure because Filippo was mostly self-educated in alchemy and geomantics (> where the 16 gods stem from) and he worked with what Ottone took over from the "dead saracen" - a "bestia" (Biscione) that he swore allegiance to with the words that became the Visconti motto: >> Vipereos mores non violabo << (I will not violate the Snake's uses > mores is translated here as "uses" but can also be: custom - tradition - commandment - and some other) when he was Archbishop of Milan.

Somewhere in the "Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret" I mention that this was similar to the Negroli name change - an announcement to the world and those who could READ that message that HE > Ottone and his house from that moment when the Biscione emerged in Milan would never oppose the Great Serpent.
I mentioned that the dead Saracen in Ottone's story is a symbol for a "dead Barakah" (and I said that because you won't find a SERPENT in Saracenic "heraldry" especially not on a shield!) just like the one Gurdjieff was blessed with. That means a personal power to accomplish spiritual doings that can NOT be transferred to disciples (and so is DEAD).
You can read about such things in Sufic comments on the worthlessness of G's 4th WAY.
The TOOL he received instead is alive and well and was in the Biscione's entrails but could not be elevated to LIFE - until the teachers came to Filippo's court.

When the teachers finally came they corrected and completed Filippo's dilettantism and the fruit is the subject of this topic. So whatever other versions exist - THIS - the PMB - is the hallmark of Tarot.
http://www.zedler-lexikon.de/index.html ... ormat=1%27)

Image


Well, there was one Ottone Visconti, who got the helmet, and there was another, who had the title arch bishop ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottone_Visconti

You seem to think, that it was the same Ottone.

Another version:
Decembrio, Piercandido: Seite 3
********************
"Leben des Filippo Maria Visconti dritten Herzogs von Mailand."
1. KAPITEL

Von der Abkunft der Visconti und den berühmten Gliedern des Hauses

Der VISCONTI Abkunft war vielfacher Überlieferung zufolge eine gar alte und erlauchte. Ihren Namen haben sie vermutlich, weil sie nach Vertreibung der Grafen von Anghiera [Angleria] durch FRIEDRICH an ihrer Statt zu stellvetretenden Grafen [Vicecomites = Visconti] ernannt wurden; mit der Zeit nannten sie sich aber selber Grafen. Der erste aus der Familie, der sich einen Namen erwarb, Umberto Visconti, hatte zwei Söhne, Oddo und Eribrando; von Eribrando wissen allerdings einige nicht zu berichten, daß er Umbertos Sohn war, sondern nur, daß er durch einen Sieg berühmt wurde, der ihm das Wappenzeichen der Schlange eintrug. Oddo, erwählter Bischof der Mailänder Kirche, bahnte den Seinen den Weg zur Erwerbung der Herrschaft, nachdem er die Partei der DELLA TORRE aus der Stadt verdrängt hatte. Sein Bruder hieß Obizo und dessen Sohn Tebaldo. Matteo, Tebaldos Sohn, unterwarf Vercelli und Novara. Nachdem er außerdem die Stadt Como Nuovo, die am Lario See [Comer See] liegt, erworben hatte, wurde er vom römischen König ARNULF [fälschlich statt ADOLPH VON NASSAU] zum Reichsvikar ausersehen, später aber legte er die Herrschaft nieder.
http://www.manfred-hiebl.de/genealogie- ... _1111.html

So Decembrio (who worked for Filippo Maria and wrote the earliest biography of him) thought, that Eribrando established the viper symbol.

Eribrando is thought to have been father of Ottone (who got the sarazen helmet)
http://www.geni.com/people/Ottone-Visco ... 0571876210
If this is true, than Ottone would have been 69, when he got the helmet ... and 81, when he defended the emperor in Rome.

This source ...

I Visconti di Milano nei secoli XI e XII: Indagini tra le fonti
Ambrogio Filippini
Tangram Edizioni Scientifiche, 25 Jun 2014 - History - 248 pages
https://books.google.de/books?id=BELqBQ ... 11&f=false

... knows this Ottone Visconti and a son Guido of him in context to various emperors, but the 1099 sarazen helmet isn't mentioned.

Image


But at another page (same source) I found some notes ...

Image


Image


Well, I take from this, that something was there and that this is still "conservato nella basilica di Sant'Ambrogio".

I searched for it ... and I found this:

Image


... with the commentary:
Andando verso l’altare si vede una colonna con un serpente di bronzo custodito nella basilica dal 1002!
La leggenda vuole che si tratti del serpente innalzato nel deserto da Mosè (in questo caso avrebbe più di 3000 anni!!!).
La Bibbia narra che Dio, per punire l’infedeltà del suo popolo, mandò dei serpenti velenosi. In seguito, però, commosso dalle preghiere di Mosè, disse”Fatti un serpente
E mettilo sopra un’asta; chiunque, dopo essere stato morso, lo guarderà, resterà in vita”.
http://www.larapedia.com/viaggi_milano/ ... stica.html

Well, it doesn't look like the Visconti viper.


https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehustan
L'arcivescovo Arnolfo II da Arsago, intorno all'anno 1000, portò a Milano da uno dei suoi viaggi un serpente di bronzo e ancora adesso si trova nella Basilica di sant'Ambrogio a Milano, dov'è posto su di una colonna, al lato sinistro della navata centrale.
... no word about the Visconti viper and the sarazen helmet.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D

#54
Oh - you did beat me to the sec.

I was just gonna posting - so I did not read your above post yet.

Anyway here is what I wrote:

I just wanted to add that I know Hans Sachs whom are your provided studies about.
When I once visited Nürnberg I couldn't take a step without tripping over him.
I like his works and they are mostly folklore - like I said.

The PDF you linked I saved and did begin to read (because I like HS) - actually right now I'm on page 14 (from 45) and see that it is about DER HÜRNEN SEUFRIED (the horned Siegfried) what is - like the author mentions - an adaptation of the SIEGFRIED lore that he mentions with dates and such.

The SIEGFRIED DER DRACHENTÖTER (Siegfried the dragon slayer) is a part of the much larger NIBELUNGEN LIED (N is a clan + LIED is song).
The SIEGFRIED lore instead was an adaptation of the older SIGURD SAGA that came from the Northmen of old (identifiable by the personage of Bryhild and HAGEN!).

The Northmen traveled far and wide with their DRAGONS - possibly even to the today's US of A.
And to todays Russia - nearly everywhere the sea and the rivers could take them for conquest and sometimes trade.

In their possession were the "Uig Chessmen - 12th century" possibly crafted in Trondheim of Norway that are now on exhibit in London.
With your interest in chess you should see where I'm coming from this time.

When you follow through with your T pondering you will exactly land where my suggested bucket-list in the former post would take you.

Resistance IS futile!

And I love your new thinking - even when you do not know it yet.

So: what was the question?

(Above I see you've answered the question - but as I said I didn't read it so far - but I will ASAP because you got me really exited and I want to know where The DRAGON will take you!)

Exited (as I said!)

Adrian

Re: The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D

#55
Oh that was a fast read Huck!

If you had actually read the quote of mine with all it's sneaky windings to comprehension before condensing it to your taste you would have realized that I didn't mention a helmet but Saracen ARMORY as a whole and heraldry and as an example a shield.

The Saracens did NOT use such emblems - so it could not have been taken over in ANY heraldic form from them.
The whole story and JERUSALEM is CODE even if there were Viscontis there by what Christian Name ever!

The Saracens had KNOWLEDGE.
That is what the SERPENT > the Ouroboros > the Biscione represent.
SECRET Saracen KNOWLEDGE.

Ottone (you are totally right with your link) was the one I meant because in his presence the B was elevated over Milan. It was so in his POSSESSION and the motto of the family that I quoted in Latin and translated is the OATH he took.

You are dealing with secrets here that were/are regarded more worthy than personal life or gold.
You do not seem to understand that. Where did Ottone go for his last days on earth?
To what events is that place connected? Events mentioned by me lengthy in the other thread.

The same deceit happened to Jesus - or his modern disciples - who looked more possibly like a young Arafat but was portrayed in the likeness of Barry Gibb for POLITICAL reasons.
You have to tell people what they can understand - not necessarily the truth.
See the IRAQ wars > the now confirmed official lies of the government to it's own people and the world to gain SUPERIORITY.

If Ottone had told the truth in the forum he would possibly not have lasted a day or 2 after that - in my opinion of course.

The snake that you found is obviously more connected to Moses and his snake tales - but still interesting.
Not HERE of course!

But it is very much appreciated that you dip now your toes in the deeeeep water.
See: I'm on a RUSH and YOU made me do it!
Thanks man!

Adrian

P.S. As I mentioned Filippo was a self educated apprentice of alchemy and much darker stuff - you should know that from his libraries contents - so it was very natural for him to feel a connection to the T theme - being close to his own crest and chest (heart I mean) - he also felt a close connection to the Mother of JC - The VIRGIN - sometimes (not always of course). What now? shall we go THERE too? I can - but I think that the topic would be closed in no-time - may Robbert be patient as he is but readers won't stand it I'm sure AND it would really not be on topic!

Re: The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D

#56
Hi Huck - I just finished the work on HS/HS that you linked.

You could have said though that T emerges just on the few last pages.
If I didn't like HS so much I would hold now a grudge - but I do not.

You should have noticed that the Decamerone of Giovanni Boccaccio c. 1350 (all the while ITALIAN to the bone!) is mentioned thereat as another version of the T story that I would suggest to read too.
The WHOLE thing of course and the works on it TOO because many secrets take blasphemous or sexual forms to raise the attention of their supposed readers (14th century!).

T can so take the persona of HOLY and the HARLOT (like the 2 Marys) and still be perceived as the same T - only from an unprejudiced POV ( > the Adept or Apprentice who must come to know ALL walks of life and learn to perceive them as ONE) though.

Same with the dragon.

He (although sometimes a She > the 2 Pythons in Greek lore) can do good and bad. In the later stories like T or Siegfried or Sigurd you have to kill HIM to reach his good.
In some versions the hero EATS the HEART of the BEAST to gain his PERSONALITY. Siegfried does not go so far in the better known versions - but he bathes in the BLOOD of the BEAST to become like HIM on his OUTSIDE. Indestructible > INVINCIBLE.

The dragon has 2 sides (or ends if you will) 1 good > CAPUT Draconis [Geomantic sign] (the head with his wisdom in the very old tales) and 1 bad > CAUDA Draconis [Geomantic sign] ((his TAIL - that is the fiercest and most powerful weapon people could think of before the A-Bomb was invented that led Mr. Oppenheimer to poetical heights of delusion (?) [ > the other thread!]))

Because your insight into the motives and self-understanding of the Visconti (and later Sforza who took over the burden) seems from my POV limited (so far) I got you a present that I hope you will cherish.



Image




It is the title page of a (to my knowledge) mostly lost handwritten private document of a few pages (like a voluptuous letter) that was presented to Francesco II Sforza - (the last) Duke of Milan - on his 14th birthday when I remember correctly to make him familiar with the family secret.

Because code comes in many forms it should be interesting to see the TEXT that COULD be readable in Italian or Latin - but still be a disguise in the open - and so not reveal anything until someone searches for a KEY to use it on IT - like The STEMMA of the Borromeo House that reads HUMILITY but is only short for NOBODY's SERVANT (HUMILTAS > HUMILTAS NEMINI).

Here you can see how the Sforza saw themselves.

Like Siegfried they BECAME the dragon (now you may understand better what Ottone meant when he swore to "not violate the uses of The SERPENT"). It was manifold!

You see that The SERPENT rules the WHOLE WORLD.
All 4 quarters of the shield are HIS. To get a grip on the black that crosses from EAST to WEST and so crosses on it's way to the top the poor little EAGLE (not otherwise because the SUN is BORN to the right and RISES to to the left > the NIGHT JOURNEY of The SUN is not shown here but a MAJOR part to understand this Hieroglyphic) you can have a look at heraldry but you won't be informed there about the personal use the Sforza made of common symbolism.

Your HELMET is there. And the HOARD of The DRAGON (that Siegfried acquired - and people are searching for today still!) To count will get you to the next stage of understanding.

And you may notice that the upper and the lower parts of The DRAGON are divided quite distinctively like I said before in The OLD LORE. The HEAD holds the wisdom (to use it for whatever matter) and the metaphorical and weaponized TAIL is formed by a decorative part of the HELMET - so depicting that the SEPARATION of both parts is a disguise in itself and all decisions (how to use that tail for example) are made in The HEAD anyway.

By taking the HELMET (and wearing it at ALL times from thereon in a symbolic sense - because in REALITY there was NO helmet like this and NEVER was) now the young Duke would become ONE with his Spiritus Familiaris (the House GOD) > remember the Negroli wonder in the other thread?
Now you may think about BAPHOMET again and all the ramblings. And The GODHEAD in religulous contexts. The description of The DRAGON in the Apocrypha and the Revelation...
... ... ...

I got hold of that JPG when it was on auction somewhere on the net - because like I said before I use only sources that are publicly available. To my knowledge it was sold and so lost now to public scrutiny.



I hope that you like it (a bit at least!)

Adrian

Re: The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D

#57
Adrian Goldwetter wrote:Hi Huck - I just finished the work on HS/HS that you linked.

You could have said though that T emerges just on the few last pages.
If I didn't like HS so much I would hold now a grudge - but I do not.
For such cases one can search with strg-F, for instance "theo" .... :-) or "meer"

Anyway, the aspect is clear: Hans Sachs in the protestant Nurremberg named Theodelinda, others not. Whereby it's clear, that "Lampart" means Lombardy according ...

own research
Lombardy found in old German the expressions Lombardei, Lambartien, Lampart, Lamparten, Lamperten lant, Lombarten, Lumpertey according ...
https://books.google.de/books?id=8LN9-T ... ei&f=false
... so contemporary German readers should have realized, that it was spoken of Lombardy.
You should have noticed that the Decamerone of Giovanni Boccaccio c. 1350 (all the while ITALIAN to the bone!) is mentioned thereat as another version of the T story that I would suggest to read too.
It was noted in the quote from the biography of Caspar von der Roen ... "Die uralte Sage ist überliefert in Boccaccio´s Decamerone III, 2, in dem Gedichte „Das Meerwunder“ im Heldenbuche Caspar´s von der Roen, sowie in einem Meisterliede und einem Spruchgedichte des Hans Sachs."
Image


It is the title page of a (to my knowledge) mostly lost handwritten private dokument of a few pages (like a volouptous letter) that was prensented to Francesco II Sforza - (the last) Duke of Milan - on his 14th birthday when I remember correctly to make him familiar with the family secret.
... :-) ... I don't know of this, but it appeared already in the Sfera illuminated manuscript, which went with Anna Sforza to Ferrara. I've to smile ... "family secret" ...

Father Time was an element in many Petrarca-Trionfi versions since the 1440s. Beside that, Francesco Sforza was invited "somehow" to the dragon knight order of emperor Sigismondo (founded around 1407), at least we have the reflection, that the PMB-Emperor looks rather similar like emperor Sigismondo. And Sforza married in a San-Sigismondo church. Already emperor Charles IV had a favor for San Sigismondo ... he collected especially the relics of saints with military background. San Sigismondo once had been King of Burgundy, as far I remember possibly the first royal saint.

Michael J. Hurst once wrote an article to it ... http://pre-gebelin.blogspot.de/2007/11/ ... lture.html

...
Like Siegfried they BECAME the dragon (now you may understand better what Ottone meant when he swore to "not violate the uses of The SERPENT"). It was manyfold!
If Eribrand (died 1037) established "something with a viper" more than 200 years ago, then Ottone, if he really established this motto (as you claim), wasn't very original with it.
You see that The SERPENT rules the WHOLE WORLD.
... :-) ... from my pov ttp that's tps

*****************

Anyway, I think, I made something wrong. Based on earlier studies I assumed that "36 Agistulfus Rex" ...
http://trionfi.com/visconti-genealogy
... would be identical to "Ago" or "Agilulf" (reigned 591 - c.616), second husband to Theodelinda.

However, meanwhile the web has improved, and there is better material, for instance a list with Lombardian kings ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... e_Lombards
... which has ..

Ratchis (744 - 749)
Aistulf (749 - 756)
Desiderius (756 - 774)

... and the Visconti list has ...

35. Rachis Rex
36. Agistulfus Rex
37. Desiderius Rex

... so rather identical in this segment. So I assume now, that I was wrong, when identifying Theodelinda's husband.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D

#58
Hallo Huck!

Let me give you my 1st impression of your post in real time:

> --- ah... °°... ... °° ... (?) - ... mmh... °°-- huh?... ... - - ... ... ... >°°< ... ... ! ... ! ... <

It's a lot to take in and nothing like that I'd expected that's for sure!
But then again: it's US!
How could I've thought that you would really go THIS way?
But that's me you know...
Totally naive in the bottomless pit of my ever trusting heart...
A glimmer of hope I cradle in my cold shivering hands
...and try to REkindle it... ... ...
...and with it... ...my hope for...
...the m-o-r-n-i-n-g...

...doch es ist die Nachtigall
und nicht die Lerche die mein traulich HERZ
so wundersam betrifft...
noch ist Hoffnung!
Denn mag die Nacht auch lang sein -
die dunklen Stunden sind noch nicht vorbei.

So ist noch Hoffnung auf ein meerfach' Wunder

bis die Lerche singt um Mitternacht.



With other words: "What ARE you talking about?"

One question came to my dancing mind though while recovering from the above truly and to my best ability reported experience:

>> ... :-) ... I don't know of this, but it [ >> the DRAGON HELMET << in >> my << JPG that I brought] appeared already in the Sfera illuminated manuscript, which went with Anna Sforza to Ferrara. I've to smile ... "family secret" ... <<

You really seem to try to make a contest in misunderstanding out of this matter that you brought here without reason and I remember from "the other" thread a similar impression that I got... perhaps that's why you smile on this occasion?

The DRAGON HELMET that you obviously didn't find in your search for ANY device in the concerned families...

(because: when you look at the title... ... see: Visconti-Sforza!)

...but I do not think that I will go along with that Geisterbahnfahrt of your making :)

...indeed you were SO desperate about THAT that you posted this sneaky commemorative thing in honor of MOSES with an ITALIAN text (what I said often is not uncomfortable for me but impolite and UN-informative to possible readers (yes there are some clicks - around 22 a day) - that you provided what indeed was SO UN-informative that YOU didn't UNDERSTAND a thing yourself.

That is absolutely & totally & NOT acceptable under what standards of communications ever I/(you)/THEY would put to the test here.

This goes for all of this >my< above post obviously too without saying!
I was just trying to make a point.

Adrian

P.S. I must add that I just went over the debacle of this page again I must say that the 1st remark you made in the post I can in the moment not get quite over so I'll tell you what it is - you advise SEARCH machines?

>> For such cases one can search with strg-F, for instance "theo" .... :-) or "meer" <<

You may have a look in "the other" thread how THAT turned out for you (and mikeh) - you both used them search-functions and turned up empty. YOU several times and so disturbing the flow of the argument (if there was any... OK sometimes - but very seldom) so that I had to show you where the things where that you swore to be non existent - BECAUSE your SEARCH came up empty and so it couldn't be what shouldn't be in your mind. Yeah - search machines on documents - what a HELL of an advice. Thx for that Huck. You could simply have told like I do to the sec when I post a video or a book where only a special content is needed. You do not WANT to communicate in a feasible manner - otherwise you would give contextual links to my posts and not that shortened excuses for quotes that you use. For ex in your quote of my text it looks rather ridiculous when I read there as a QUOTE from my text:
You see that The SERPENT rules the WHOLE WORLD.
when the contextual text is:
You see that The SERPENT rules the WHOLE WORLD.
All 4 quarters of the shield are HIS. To get a grip on the black that crosses from EAST to WEST and so crosses on it's way to the top the poor little EAGLE (not otherwise because the SUN is BORN to the right and RISES to to the left > the NIGHT JOURNEY of The SUN is not shown here but a MAJOR part to understand this Hieroglyphic) you can have a look at heraldry but you won't be informed there about the personal use the Sforza made of common symbolism.

Re: The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D

#59
I've demonstrated with sources, that there are 3 different viper appearances around the Visconti viper, which might have contributed to the final heraldry Visconti biscia.

1. Eribrand, who was victorious in a duel (before 1037)
2. Ottone (I), the man, who got the helmet (1099)
3. the viper, which appeared on a column in a milanese basilica (1102)

4. if I count also your motto, that you connected to Ottone (II), somehow in 13th century
5. if I count also my own version with Theodelinda, which might go back to a joke by Hans Sachs or to a Merovingian favor for water dragons

... as you see, a "meerfach' Wunder" ...

Image

http://www.zeno.org/Kunstwerke/B/D%C3%B ... Meerwunder
Dürer

Image

http://rindertjagersma.tumblr.com/page/10
Another Meerwunder (Melanchton, another protestant)

Image

Sforza dragon with axe on a tree ... as in the story of Authari (Theodelinda's first husband)
"Als Th. (Theodolinda) dies erröthend ihrer Kammerfrau erzählt, meint diese, der vermeinte Gesandte könne kein anderer sein als ihr Verlobter.
Mit einem bairischen Ehrengeleite ziehen dann die Langobarden heim, an der bairisch-italienischen Grenze aber hebt sich Authari, so hoch er kann, im Sattel und schleudert seine Streitaxt wuchtig in einen Baum, indem er ausruft: Solche Hiebe führt Authari! Da erkennen auch die bairischen Herren, daß er der Langobardenkönig selber sei."
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D

#60
I wrote, 2 pages back:
Second, there is currently an exhibition sponsored by the Metropolitan Museum in New York of luxury decks from the 15th and 16th centuries. The web-page for the PMB is at http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/li ... orza-tarot, with links to other pages about other decks. While I am sure the cards are under glass, by looking at them at an angle might clarify something. Unfortunately I am a continent away from New York. I have ordered the catalog. If it says anything of interest I will report it.
Well, there is this, about the Stuttgart Playing Cards (Timothy Husband, The World in Play, pp. 17-18)
The largest of all the early playing cards, these are made of six layers of paper glued together to make
pasteboard. Some of the paper has watermarks that have been identified with a paper mill in Ravensburg
and can be dated between 1427 and 1431; this, along with the style, supports the generally accepted date of
about 1430. The corners of these cards are rounded, and there is some wear, particularly on the gold
ground. Because the wear is on the high relief areas of the cards’ uneven surfaces, it evidently resulted from
the abrasion caused by stacking one card on another over the centuries. There is no wear or accumulated
grime concentrated along the lower edges, where cards are typically handled—a further indication that
they were intended primarily for visual delectation. The pasteboard was first coated with a white primer that was then smoothed and polished, a technique commonly used in panel painting. (15) The backs were all painted with red lead containing vermilion. The outlines of the figures and principal forms were etched into the ground with a stylus, with lesser details underdrawn in pen and ink. For the background of every card, a thin red bole was laid down. [end of 17] over which gold leaf was applied and burnished, again as it would he in panel painting. The pigments were generally mixed with lead white. In some elements, like the feathers of the falcons, a thin black glaze was applied over white to yield shades of gray. Several different techniques of applying gold and silver were used to achieve varying optical effects. Finally, glazes of red lake were used over the gold to tone the feet and bills of the ducks as well as the perches and hoods of the falcons, while a green glaze was used on the heads of several ducks.
_____________
15 For a complete technical study, see Ernst-Ludwig Richter and Heide Harlin, “The ‘Stuttgarter Kartenspiel’: Scientific Examination of the Pigments and Paint Layers of Medieval Playing Cards,” Studies in Conservation 21, no. 1 (February 1976), pp. 18-24.
There is also Heribert Meurer, Das Stuttgarter Kartenspiel/The Stuttgart Playing Cards (Stuttgart, Konrad Theiss, 1991), Husband's primary source for these card. Husband thinks that all the surviving 15th century luxury cards were made for show and not play, but this is the only argument that I can find for that position, and it is only with regard to the one deck. But perhaps the points fit the others as well.

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