Re: Poem with ...-occh (1779 - Domenico Balestrieri)

#11
marco wrote: I think the reference is only to the Wheel of Fortune (X). “Biccocch” possibly means “stumbling people”, Here it could refer to drunkards.

Thanks Marco -- I think biccoch is most likely the Lombardian 'bicocca', spinning wheel (guindolo or arcolaio in Italian).

I was reading asp as aspo (like a reel, as a spinning wheel)

Also I read scocch as the Lombardia / Canton Ticino 'scoca' - "altalena" (swings, sways) in Italian,

so was reading it 'in this world full of ups and downs.'

However, it could mean both? He seems to use a few words that have double meanings, one of them being fool, e.g., gnocch means both dumpling and fool, marzocch has several meanings, beside fool, monkey, puppy, tawny owl; boiocch = fool/turnip. (A pattern starting with Tarocch? Both a card game and fool!) .


another Milanese word for altalena is listròca, related to "Chi ha del lest, chi del lisrocch" ??
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Poem with ...-occh (1779 - Domenico Balestrieri)

#12
SteveM wrote:
marco wrote: I think the reference is only to the Wheel of Fortune (X). “Biccocch” possibly means “stumbling people”, Here it could refer to drunkards.

Thanks Marco -- I think biccoch is most likely the Lombardian 'bicocca', spinning wheel (guindolo or arcolaio in Italian).
Also related to bicocchin, Pirouette.
SteveM wrote: Also I read scocch as the Lombardia / Canton Ticino 'scoca' - "altalena" (swings, sways) in Italian,

so was reading it 'in this world full of ups and downs.'

However, it could mean both? He seems to use a few words that have double meanings, one of them being fool, e.g., gnocch means both dumpling and fool; marzocch has several meanings, beside fool, monkey, puppy, tawny owl; boiocch = fool/turnip. (A pattern starting with Tarocch? Both a card game and fool!) .
There is also scocchee = motteggiatore (jester, mocker, teaser, scoffer).
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Poem with ...-occh (1779 - Domenico Balestrieri)

#13
SteveM wrote: another Milanese word for altalena is listròca, related to "Chi ha del lest, chi del lisrocch" ??
[/quote]

Duh... it's not lisrocch, it's lifrocch (a slyboots, a dodger - furbacchione in Italian).
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

Re: Poem with ...-occh (1779 - Domenico Balestrieri)

#14
SteveM wrote:
marco wrote: I think the reference is only to the Wheel of Fortune (X). “Biccocch” possibly means “stumbling people”, Here it could refer to drunkards.

Thanks Marco -- I think biccoch is most likely the Lombardian 'bicocca', spinning wheel (guindolo or arcolaio in Italian).

I was reading asp as aspo (like a reel, as a spinning wheel)

Also I read scocch as the Lombardia / Canton Ticino 'scoca' - "altalena" (swings, sways) in Italian,

so was reading it 'in this world full of ups and downs.'
Hello Steve, you are right both about "bicocca" and "scocca"! It makes much more sense like this. I was mistakenly reading "sciocch": my bad.

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