Well, we have the aim to understand the word "tarochus" in the Bassono context and also to understand possible mutations of the Milanese word "Tarocch".mikeh wrote:You are combining two cities and families as if they are one.Jupiter and Venus are not part of the d'Este family tree, or even of any d'Este deck that we know of. It is true that the Visconti loved their "tree" and "ancestors"; but no indication that they used the "Milanese dialect" word for any deck of cards. Their successors might have, but by then the Michelino was long forgotten; and even it is hard to see as an "ancestor" deck, just because Jupiter and venus are in it, because there are also 14 other gods and demigods.The earlier name of the game had been "Trionfo", "Trionfi", " Ludus triumphorum" and all this had good language connotations to "triumphal festivity" and "Trionfi" as poem of Petrarca.
In the first game, that we know (Michelino deck), we have the curious appearance, that Michelino first painted a Visconti genealogy (before 1503) and then, when coming back, a "system of gods" for a card play, from which curiously 2 figures before also had appeared as ancestors: Iupiter Rex and Venus.
There we have the "tarocch" = "genealogical tree" close to the "Trionfi" cards.
Naturally also the word "Tarochi" in the context of Alfonso in the year 1505.
The story of Bassano seems to have belonged to a series of texts with mockery about the Savoyans. "Bassani Mantuani Macaronea contra Savoynos, quos vilopendiose appelat Magninos, Codimos, Broacerios, Botigliones" is given as a title.
Actually one should understand also the other stories, which belong to this title. But this is from my perspective "too difficult" ... I even don't know, if these other stories still exist, and even if I would get this Latin text, I'd much trouble to understand it.
Generally I understand, that it doesn't sound true, that Bassano wrote these texts before 1494 and also not in 1494. The political reason wasn't given, Milan was united to the French interests. When Milan declared war on France, then a political reason existed.
Storiadimilano.it has ...
1495, 31 marzo: Ludovico il Moro aderisce alla Lega contro Carlo VIII
1495, 11 giugno: Luigi d'Orléans, rimasto ad Asti con un contingente di truppe francesi, prende possesso di Novara, che gli si offre spontaneamente per sfuggire alle tasse del Moro. L'Orléans si fa chiamare Dux Mediolani, rivendicando l'eredità di Valentina Visconti.
1495, 6 luglio: Battaglia di Fornovo contro Carlo VIII che viene sconfitto dalle truppe della Lega, ma subisce pochi danni.
1495, 9 ottobre: Pace a Vercelli tra Ludovico il Moro e Carlo VIII. Carlo VIII rientra in Francia. Novara ritorna con Milano.
I think, the bridge at Vercelli (place of Bassano's episode) is the frontier between Savoy and Milan territory. We learn from this story (which well might be not a "realistic poem"), that Bassano together with his mother-in-law is enough to make Savoy tremble with confusion.
Actually one should wonder, what else this "mother-in-law" was good for in the other stories ... in the case, that these stories are indeed known and she had reappeared in these stories.
I note, that the Tarocus text has ...
"Quidam Vercellis stat a la porta Botigliano
Omnes qui Sessiam facit pagare passantes ;"
... and the meta title includes the word Botigliones ("... Magninos, Codimos, Broacerios, Botigliones")
In the Tarocus-text it's the name of a door (possibly a Vercelli city door). Webresearches hadn't success for this terminus.
I get, that Magnino is a family name in Vercelli, possibly from a location (?).
For "tarocch", from which I assume, that "blockhead" is a younger meaning, but that the "genealogical tree" possibly is indeed old meaning, I don't understand your argument. "tarocch" is definitely close to "tarocchi", which became the dominant later for the later card deck.
With the Michelino deck I've given an example, how "genealogy" and "card game" once was close, and generally I think, that family genealogy was part of the general triumphal habits and topics during 15th century, not only in Milan or Italy, but everywhere, where one had noble houses.
The Este and their genealogical experiments (in the Orlando texts) ...
... have it, that Bradamante, Orlando's sister, and Ruggiero, a Saracen warrior, became the ancestors of the d'Este house. From a late Tarot variant we learned, that Orlando also appeared on Tarot cards (Kaplan II, p. 287/288).
For the wedding of Alfonso we have, that the "trunk of a tree" (in Milanese dialect "tarocch") was part of the theater show for Alfonso's wedding.
For the "taroch" of Alione we have, that the name Ferragu is rather close to this Taroch in the text and a "Ferragut (also known as Ferragus, Ferracutus, Ferracute, Ferrakut, Ferraguto, Ferraù, Fernagu" ...
... and ..
Andrea's explanation, that Ferragu explains as a local surname in the region, isn't satisfying. "Melchidezek" or "Melchisedech" a few lines above is also not understood as a "local surname"."Ferracutus" was the Latin form of the name used in the Pseudo-Turpin Chronicle. Thomas Bulfinch used "Ferragus" in his English adaptation Legends of Charlemagne, but the form "Ferragut" appears to be the most frequent in English today.
In his Orlando innamorato, Matteo Maria Boiardo used Feraguto/Feragu (Ferraguto/Ferragu). Ferraù is a syncopated form used in Orlando furioso by Ludovico Ariosto.
Marì ne san dè au recioch
Secundum el Melchisedech
Lour fan hic. Preve hic et hec
Ma i frà, hic et hec et hoc
Ancôr gli è – d'i taroch
Chi dan zù da Ferragù
We've no guarantee, that the text is "before 1499". The printed text is from 1521, with the background, that France still reigned in Milan. It's easily possible, that the author gave the text a final redaction using older material.
... following the English definition of frottola ...
... then frottola is a song, an explanation, that I don't remember from Andrea's text (maybe I overlooked it). Songs might have some more stability, I would think.
In the full text ...
Frotula de le dòne
Nostre done han i cigl ercù
Porton cioche e van stringà
Per fè attende a la brigà
Cogle pias el mazocù.
S'una dona va a remusg
E feis ben so marì bech
El pan ong ne lo pù lech
A travonder chel pan sug
E pos cha a fer gnun ni tug
Ma cla porta a cà di scù.
Le putein ch' aveon pr' un quart
Volon ades un cavalot
S'el consegl nel fa stè ascot
Nostre done andran fer l'art
Speisa tant che Dè gle a part
Valo antorn soi paracù.
Рos chel done han preis al bot
Un vergilli han cià derrer
O gle ha mis el feu derrer
Pr'avischer nosg ciriot
Ch'ancor van nesch stradiot
Ciriant and o circù.
Aristotel nan scampè
Ch'una dona el cavalcò
Se voi done fè dercò
Penitenzia a quater pè
Guardè a non squarciè el papè
Pr'andè a studi in utroquù.
Mi ne seu pu bel pareir
Che fè stragichè el frangougl
Crubir gloeugl con i zenougl
E attacherse ai contrapeis
Cost è un at' chi tost è ampreis
Chi fa fer l'erbor forcù
Guardè done a non fiacher
So sij gravie cho gle i group
Vozì aneing la schina a i coup
E la chiesia su o ciocher
Ma sei destre al sabacher
Degle o so reciprocù.
O gle o zeu del cazafrust
Zeu da cog quant el fa brun
Zeu che doi ne paron ch'un
La gatta orba è ancor pù iust
Ma val poc chi nalcia el bust
Per dè an brocha a piza o cù.
Marì ne san dè au recioch
Secundum el Melchisedech
Lour fan hic. Preve hic et hec
Ma i frà, hic et hec et hoc
Ancôr gli è – d'i taroch
Chi dan zù da Ferragù
Cole chi per so zovent
Ne se san fer der sul tasche
Con o temp devantran masche
Quant gnuni ni dirà pù nent
So dagn per ciò gl'abion el ment
Cho diao san furb el cù.
S'isg bigotz gent dal mantel
Queich fratesche o crestian vegl
Vorran creze a i soi cervegl
Despresiant o nostr libbel
Mandegle autr da preve Raphael
Ferse scrive un k. s. u.
I recognize as other names Aristoteles as Aristotel and Raphael as Raphael, but perhaps there are other names.
Andrea gives an erotic explanation for the whole text (which explains Aristoteles, who is known for such a theme). "Ferragu" has erotical components in the version of Boiardo (as far I can recognize it from the wiki-article) ...
Ferraguto in Orlando innamorato
In Matteo Maria Boiardo's Orlando innamorato, Ferraguto is a leading Saracen knight (and not a giant), the nephew of King Marsilio of Spain, and one of the many characters passionately in love with Angelica. At the beginning of the poem, Angelica and her brother Argalia arrive at the court of the Emperor Charlemagne in Paris, announcing that any knight who defeats Argalia in single combat will win Angelica's hand in marriage, but if he loses he will become Argalia's prisoner. Ferraguto is among the first knights to try and is unhorsed. However, he angrily refuses to accept his captivity and Argalia and Angelica flee in terror. Ferraguto catches Argalia, kills him and steals his helmet, but he promises the dying man only to wear it for a few days.
Ferraù in Orlando furioso
At the beginning of Ludovico Ariosto's Orlando furioso (a continuation of Orlando innamorato), Ferraù loses the helmet in a stream and is confronted by the ghost of Argalia, who tells him he must find another helmet instead. Ferraù vows to win the helmet of Mambrino, which now belongs to the greatest Christian knight, Orlando. He manages to possess it for a while but Ariosto predicts his ultimate death at the hands of Orlando. Like the character in the Pseudo-Turpin Chronicle and the 14th-century Italian epic La Spagna, Ferraù is completely invulnerable except via his navel.
Well, the more I read about this Ferragu, the more I believe, that Ferragu in the text addresses this giant.
If "Frotola" is a song, then I would think, that Alione's text is complete. Songs don't have so much text.Huck wrote,In Bassano's poem, the word "tarochus" is perhaps chosen because it refers to the Taro River. Fine. But that does not suggest that he made up the word. What is funny is when you combine two things that aren't actually associated, but do already exist, for a mocking point. It's called a pun. Wikipedia:Bassano seems to have had the higher intelligence and preferred the more subtil messages. If "Tarocus" had been a well-known attacking word like for instance "asshole" or normal "Fool", it would have been just a low language word and he would have been similar to Alione later. Using "Tarocus" - an unknown word, but reflecting an actual context (the recently lost battle at the Taro river) and so formulated, that a reader or listener could recognize the context - is a more intelligent attack. Describing, that he had hit the opponent on the nose with brute force, wouldn't have been really funny, but describing, that he just made a threatening gesture, which caused the opponent to run for fear and so running against his own pilastrum and getting the same bloody nose, is funny.These are pre-existing meanings, not meanings one of which you are giving the word as you say it. It's not clever if you don't use at least two pre-existing meanings. See any of the examples on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun).The pun, also called paronomasia, is a form of word play that suggests two or more meanings, by exploiting multiple meanings of words, or of similar-sounding words, for an intended humorous or rhetorical effect
I don't know which poet is cleverer, because I don't know the rest of Alione's poem. But I think it is more likely that Alfonso knew Alione's verse than that he did Bassono's, because (a) Lucrezia likes frattole, and (b) Alfonso likes French music. There is nothing comparable for Alfonso and Bassano. But it didn't have to be Alione, it could have been somebody else from the same general region; and the word could even have been used to refer to the game in that region, before Alfonso, and Alfonso simply copied that. Also, there is no indication that Alione's use of "taroch" is in response to Bassono's. There would be more in common between the two verses than that if it was.
Generally I would think, that we naturally don't know all communications about this word "Tarocus" or "Taroch" between 1495 and 1505. We just were able to capture a few communications, which contained the word.
Games use "fighting words" like "chess" (when you threaten the king) and "mat" (when you finish the game) in chess. In Go you say "Atari", when you threaten to capture a stone.I see your point about the French not minding a word suggesting the Taro River after 1500, because they've gotten their revenge. But I don't think it counts either way on the issue of whether "taroch" was inspired by a pre-existing "tarakh" word or by the Tarot River, or by both.
Card games also have occasionally such words, for instance Contra (x2) - Re (x4) - Bock (x8) in German games doubles usually the value of the game. Considering the usual rules of the Tarot game, such words might have existed for the case, that you capture the Pagat or that the Pagat makes the last trick. Playing the Fool likely was combined with "Excuse", which gave his Swiss-Austrian name "Sküs".
In "Doppelkopf" you say "Doppelkopf", when you get a trick counting 40 points or more (which demands, that the trick contains only Aces and 10s) ... an example, that the name of a game can be identical to such a "fighting word" (as it is also "chess" in the game of chess).
Actually we really don't have reliable ideas, how the Trionfi game were played around 1500. It's against plausibility to conclude, that none of the French soldiers learned the game and that no Trionfi cards were brought to France in that time (which naturally doesn't automatically mean, that a French Trionfi card production had started).
If the French suffered by the Italian mockery about the battle at the river Taro, it might have become popular (likely after the recovery of the victory in Milan 1499/1500) to use the fighting word "Taraux" for situations, when a trick looked lost (by the "highest trump"), but was nonetheless taken by a "special rule".
We have had in Piedmont the curiosity, that Angel was higher than World ... in contrast to the Milanese rule World higher than Angel. How might this have developed?
In Doppelkopf you've two "10 of hearts" curiously chosen as highest trumps. In one version the first played 10-of-hearts captures the second played 10-of-hearts (as it is usual in this game for all other cards; the first Queen-of- Clubs captures the second etc for all others). In another version of the game, however, the second 10-of-hearts captures the first (all other pairs are functioning as usual).
This second version limits the power of the "highest trump" in an interesting manner. Naturally it's an interesting detail of the game to hunt for a capture of the foreign 10-of-hearts.
In a Tarot game it might be interesting to give the card 20 (Angel) the power to beat card 21 World, when it is played as the second in a trick ... especially, if World was connected to the 5-points-value (like Pagat and Fool) and the Angel not.
So, if the capture of the World card was connected to the fighting word "Taraux" (to this rare action of "capturing the World, which meant a rather revolutionary turn of the game), then we would have an explanation for the choice of a new name for the game "Trionfi".
Early confirmation for the use of the new game terminus Taraux/Tarochi are rare for the first 10 years after 1505, Ferrara 1515/16 alone has a series of productions.
Farsa Satyra Morale (1508-1512 ?)
Taroch: nulla latina rationeSpampana
Non e tua arte? questa mosca ho presa.
Trova pur chi te creda in altra purte.
Hor non teniam la cosa piu suspesa:
Con dadi a passa dece, a sanza, al sozzo,
A darli la man larga e ben distesa;
Minoretto, sbaraglio, ad urta gozzo,
A trichetrac, et a torna galea;
Vedi se come un pipion te ingozzo.
Ah, ah, scio quel che vuoi, no te intendea:
Eccole qui le galante sfogliose :
Chiama te: fante; ve, chel te venea.
Io voglio contentarte in tutte cose;
O voi alla crichetta, o alla fluxata,
A rompha, a fluxo, et a le due nascose;
Primera, al trenta, et alla condannata;
A rauso, a cresce el monte; hor apre gli occhi:
Che tua o mia sara questa giornata.
Mancava anchora el gioco de tarocchi,
Chesser mi par tuo pasto: e un altro anchora
Minchion, sminchiata voise dir da sciocchi.
Hor prende qual tu voi, chel fugge lhora.
With Barbarian rite, without relationship to the Latin, now they call it taroch (possibly already in 1512, but from c. 1534)
"Barbaro ritu, taroch nunc dicunt nulla latina ratione
Now we have a 1505 "French Trionfi" from Florence as a new finding, together with a "first Germini".
A few Trionfi notes might be there for the same period.
Comparing our notes 1500-1514 with the well researched time 1451-1565 this gives the result, that this period isn't very well researched. Or it hadn't so much Taraux/Taroch/Trionfi cards.