:-) ... this is not an advertising, just my amusement
Huck wrote:mikeh wrote: Is the attribution of the 7 planets really invented by him? Or were there somebody earlier with it?
In Gates of Light Gikatilla does indeed talk about planets. He says there are 12 of them, 3 for each of the 4 seasons, named the lamb, the bull, the twins, the crab, the lion, the virgin, the scales, the scorpion, the archer, the goat, the bucket, and the fish. Otherwise I can find no mention of planets, or of the particular planets by name, in Gates of Light (Sha'are Orah).
These are not 7 planets, but the zodiac signs. Actually I meant the attribution of planets to Sephiroth. The planets are already in the SY with the double letters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_spheresAlbert Van Helden has suggested that from about 1250 until the 17th century, virtually all educated Europeans were familiar with the Ptolemaic model of "nesting spheres and the cosmic dimensions derived from it". Even following the adoption of Copernicus's heliocentric model of the universe, new versions of the celestial sphere model were introduced, with the planetary spheres following this sequence from the central Sun: Mercury, Venus, Earth-Moon, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.
Around 1250 and later Alfonso the wise caused the import/translation of a lot of astronomical material to Spain. Around that time there was still a lot of nobility, which still couldn't read. It's a question, if the spheres model was known in the west ... and to which degree. Whereby Jews in Provence and Spain might have had better information than other persons at other locations.
Scholem mentions, that the Bahir came from the East and went likely first to Germany, before it reached Provence.
As I said, the observer in Chapter 5 is tilted. The distinction between God and humanity is basic to the SY. Instead of God at the center of the universe, Chapter One, we have humanity on the surface of the first sphere looking up into the night star, Chapter Five. For anyone not on the equator or the poles, all the lines will be diagonal.I do not consider that the SY is describing a 2d projection, but 3d space, in which all 12 lines of the octohedron are diagonal, and in which none of the edges of a cube are.
That's only "connected" in the sense of being grouped together as "paths". But this is in a broad sense of "path", because we usually think of a path as a line, broad or narrow or without width, connecting points, not as including spheres as "paths" in their own right. I don't see why the sefirot have to be connected geometrically with the letters. Beginning, end, good and evil are not geometric entities. I don't see why "depth of above" etc should be either; they only produce the geometric categories. It's an energetic connection.They are connected as 10 of the 32 paths of Wisdom, 10 sephirah and 22 letters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_spheresSteveM wrote: The days of the week are based on Chaldean order. Septagrams of the Chaldean order which link in with the days of the week have been discovered from at least Roman times and are thought to go back much earlier.
The order was well known in the west from early times - and is incorporated into the names of the days of the week in most western European countries. In fact the change was not even affected by the change of calendar -- the Erupeon names of the days of the week go into pre-recorded history but possibly greco-roman, hellenistic hebrew or even to Babylonian times (which I think quite probable).
To what extent was the astronomical/astrological basis of such known in the west? Well recent historical discoveres suggest that the 'dark ages' were not so dark as we may have been taught -- but I don't see how it is relevant to the SY anyway, no one as far as I am aware have ever suggested it was western European (albeit, on the other hand, it may have hellenistic influences - but such extended to India. Hellenistic/Jewish confluence suggests Alexandria as a possibility. But so world-wide was the hellenistic influence it could have been anywhere, but the SY suggests somewhere where Jewish and Hellenistic ideas mixed. Probably post-temple destruction.)
There are doubts, if Charlemain could read and write, living 700 years later. How Ptolemy and his Almagest was transmitted? Pope Nicolaus (1447-1455) ordered a translation of the Almagest and the project excited the contemporary intellectuals.In his Almagest, the astronomer Ptolemy (fl. ca. 150 AD) developed geometrical predictive models of the motions of the stars and planets and extended them to a unified physical model of the cosmos in his Planetary hypotheses. By using eccentrics and epicycles, his geometrical model achieved greater mathematical detail and predictive accuracy than had been exhibited by earlier concentric spherical models of the cosmos. In Ptolemy's physical model, each planet is contained in two or more spheres, but in Book 2 of his Planetary Hypotheses Ptolemy depicted thick circular slices rather than spheres as in its Book 1. One sphere/slice is the deferent, with a centre offset somewhat from the Earth; the other sphere/slice is an epicycle embedded in the deferent, with the planet embedded in the epicyclical sphere/slice. Ptolemy's model of nesting spheres provided the general dimensions of the cosmos, the greatest distance of Saturn being 19,865 times the radius of the Earth and the distance of the fixed stars being at least 20,000 Earth radii.
The planetary spheres were arranged outwards from the spherical, stationary Earth at the centre of the universe in this order: the spheres of the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. In more detailed models the seven planetary spheres contained other secondary spheres within them.
The months March, April and November have a nice average temperature.
Hot season / summer is in April, May, June, July, August, September and October.
Bagdad has dry periods in January, February, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November and December.
On average, the warmest month is July.
On average, the coolest month is January.
March is the wettest month.
August is the driest month.
My idea, that planet spheres weren't present till a specific not known time arrived with that some posts earlier ...SteveM wrote: The cosmographic model suggests planetary correspondences with the celestial spheres - of which the chaldean order was the standard. The chaldean order may also be inferred from the attributions to the double letters. The earliest extent manuscripts of all three of the oldest redactions (short, long, saadia) all give them in the Chaldean order (Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon). The variations come later.
The SY notes the 10 Sephiroth without planets. That's easy to control. Planets appear in the letter descriptions, but not as spheres. So, whose the first with Sephiroth with spheres?Wiki states ...Is the attribution of the 7 planets really invented by him? Or were there somebody earlier with it?Gikatilla at times criticizes the Sefer Yeẓirah and the Pirḳe Hekalot. The seven heavens (Ḥag. 12a) are identified by him with the seven planets. He holds Maimonides in great esteem even when he opposes him, and quotes him very often. Other authorities quoted by him are Ibn Gabirol, Samuel ibn Naghrela, and Abraham ibn Ezra. Isaac ben Samuel of Acre in his Me'irat 'Enayyim severely criticizes Gikatilla for too free usage of the Holy Name.
The Arabic title of the astronomical work of Claudius Ptolemy (flourished 150), entitled by him μαθηματική σύνταξις, in order to distinguish it from another σύνταξις of Ptolemy's, devoted to astrology. The Almagest contains a full account of the Ptolemaic theory of astronomy, by which the retrograde movement of the inner planets was explained by a system of cycles and epicycles. It also gives, in the eighth and ninth books, a list of the fixed stars, with their positions, still of use to the astronomer. It continued to be the classical text-book of astronomy up to the time of Copernicus, and even of Newton, and was the foundation of the astronomical knowledge of the Jews (who became acquainted with it through Arabic translations) in the Middle Ages. One of the earliest Arabic translations is said to have been by an Oriental Jew, Sahl Al-Tabari (about 800), but no trace of it can be found. From Ptolemy, too, were derived the conceptions of the spheres and the primum mobile, which had so much influence upon the Cabala. The Almagest was translated into Hebrew from the Arabic, with both Averroes' and Al-Fergani's compendiums of it, by Jacob Anatoli about 1230, the latter from the Latin version of Johannes Hispalensis. Commentaries on parts of it were written by David ibn Naḥmias of Toledo, Elijah Mizraḥi, and Samuel ben Judah of Marseilles (1331); only the latter's commentary is extant. From the Almagest the Jews received their conception of the number of the fixed stars as 1,022; the comparison of the universe to an onion with its successive skins, corresponding to the spheres; and their idea of the size of the earth—24,000 miles in circumference—which indirectly led to the search for the New World, by inducing Columbus to think that the way westward to India was not so far as to be beyond his reach.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests