Phaeded wrote: And there is nothing, besides the prejudices of scholarship that existed before the Giusti discovery, to rule out the invention of tarot in Florence in 1440 with a Milanese iteration for Sforza-Bianca the following year. In fact the tight temporal interval between the two (and the probable third, intervening occurrence in Ferrara on 1/1/1441) simply suggests a fashionable trend.

Phaeded

hi Phaeded,

... :-) ... and there we are back again at Anghiari and the council of Ferrara.

Earlier you wrote:

It is of interest in light of this hypothesis that the first city Sforza took for his own when employed by the Ambrosian Republic was Pavia, the "crown-prince" university city to Milan. The Republic simply missed that implication since Sforza was under contract with them. And it is likely there, the primary ducal palace in Pavia, that the Marziano deck was found in 1449 (the palaces in Milan were sacked by Republican mobs). That discovery in turn spurring the creation of the novel PMB deck.

I don't think, that the Marziano pack was found in Pavia. This my interpretation is based on the idea, that Marcello didn't just invent a story of difficulties in his letter to Isabelle da Lorraine, but just the truth.
http://trionfi.com/jacopo-marcello-letter-1449
In February 1449 Sforza wrote a letter to Renee d'Anjou and introduced Marcello as a man, which might be useful to Renee. From this I conclude, that Renee didn't know Marcello personally before (the letter is reported by Margaret King).

As Renee should have been "somewhere in France", naturally the post took some time. I think, that Scipio Caraffa, who had served as Venetian ambassador in France before, arrived in the camp with good news for Marcello (possibly end of March, or begin of April 1449). Marcello was accepted in some function for Renee d'Anjou, which later in the year led to some installment for Marcello. Since that moment Marcello needed a worthful present for the Isabella, the wife of Renee, and before he wouldn't have use for it.

In April 1449 there were fights between troops under Colleoni and Savoyan troops. The battles went bad for Savoy.
http://www.comune.borgomanero.no.it/Bor ... manero.pdf ... April 22, 1449
Colleoni became a great general with this.

Savoy had been urged by Filippo Maria's earlier wife, as we know, a Savoy daughter, to engage for Milan and the Ambrosian republic before. In May a separate peace was negotiated between Savoy and the attackers of Milan. Part of the end of the fights with Savoy had been, that anti-pope Felix stopped his resistance and returned to the other church.

Cardinalate. Created cardinal bishop in the consistory of April 23, 1449 (4). His ambassadors presented his oath of obedience to the pope in Spoleto on June 20, 1449. Named bishop of the suburbicarian see of Sabina and papal legate and apostolic vicar of Savoie and the part of Bernese territory included in the diocese of Lausanne, and was given a pension from the apostolic treasury. Dean of the Sacred College (5). He retired to Ripaille. He was the last antipope.

http://www2.fiu.edu/~mirandas/bios1449.htm#Savoie

For this situation in May it seems plausible, that Marcello got rather direct contact to the widow of Filippo Maria Visconti. Abd it seems plausible, that she either knew, who has gotten some of the treasures plundered in Milan or that she herself might have managed to save some of them. And this might have been the way, how Marcello got the deck, either in a short or somewhat longer way. In November 1449 at least, he had the deck and the accompanying deck.

Could you be more specific, Huck, at least in hypothesis? Marcello writes:

At that time it happened that Scipio Caraffa had just returned from the region of Provence, where he had spent the most delightful and refined time in the fairest comfort of your singular realm; and I considered most observantly his conversation concerning the best and happiest conditions of my lords. By some chance the conversation turned to this game, which is called “Triumph”, certain cards that had been offered to me and which I give as they were given.

Scipio Caraffa had just returned from Provence. I assume that Savoy is part of Provence. So Scipio probably got the cards while in Savoy, perhaps from Marie of Savoy herself, who by then was in Savoy, after first taking what she wanted from the palace. Also, they--Marcello and Scipio--were discussing "this game, which is called 'Triumph'". So there might have been were other versions of the game there in Savoy, where Scipio had just been (or other places in France he had been), besides just the "game of the gods". Is that right? Or is it just that Marcello knows other versions of the game, probably from serving with Sforza? And where did the conversation between Marcello and Scipio, in which he presumably acquired the cards, take place? Where was this camp?

While I am posting things, I should correct my interpretation of the 1559 inventory in Rome. Now that I have a copy of Depaulis's article on 1559 Rome in English (The Playing Card 36:3, pp. 205-211), I see that the inventory is less exciting than I thought. The cards definitely made in Lyon, some by Moret, whom Depaulis says is Antoine Moret, based on D'Allemagne ("Moret = Antoine Moret, cited in Lyons in 1557, (D'Allemagne, Table]"), are ordinary cards, not tarot. That's what the inventory says; I just got confused by the two "Antoines". Here is the relevant part again (this time with "marco" uncapitalized, as in Depaulis's original):

Tarocchi ferraresi legati in carta bianca forniti para 14, scudi 12
Tarocchi ferraresi cum li dieci de marco Antonio de Janui dozine 24, scudi 19
Carte romane fatte a Lion di Francia marcho di Moret dozine 36, scudi 1.80
Carte romanesche larghe fatte a Lion fenite e ligate in carta bianca dozine cinque, scudi 2.50

The other Antoine, listed as "Antonio Janui", whom Depaulis thinks might be an Antoine Janin, ("would it be Antoine Janin, of Lyons?") did make tarot cards, 288 packs of them in the inventory. But it is not said that these cards are made in Lyons. "Ferrarese" is the only qualier, so it could have been a Lyon cardmaker in Ferrara, or not Lyonnaise at all. Since it does not say "fatte in Lion" they more likely are not made in Lyon. So it is not documentary evidence supporting Lyon cardmakers' supplying Ferrarese tarot cards to Rome, as I had supposed.

Depaulis in the English original also suggests slightly different translations than I had for some of the technical terms in the list: "wrapped" instead of "tied", "trimmed" instead of "cut", "worked (i.e. colored)" instead of "formed", "pullout" instead of "print". Also "marco" or "marcho" means "imprint" and by "chess" he means "sheet of checkered backs" I have put corrections [in brackets] in the previous post.

The way that the 1559 inventory came up originally was that it had information about tarot packs available in Rome, and specifically ones with the Pope and Popess in them. Since that shop had Ferrarese tarot, one would assume that they had the Pope and Popess.

Depaulis (p. 206) says that the shop was located near "la cloaca di Santa Lucia". I am not sure where that is. Checking Italian Wikipedia I find two churches of Santa Lucia near each other, one old and one new (new in the 14th century). They are located just across the Tiber from the Vatican. I do not know if there is some other Santa Lucia.

So it seems likely that decks with the Pope and Popess were available near the Vatican, But I still think that they are not the sort that Swiss guards in the Vatican would have been likely to be taught how to play tarot with. There were many other ways Swiss soldiers could have learned tarot using Pope and Popess decks, earlier.

NOTE ADDED JULY 3: FROM HERE THROUGH MUCH OF P. 7, THE POSTS ARE MOSTLY ABOUT WHERE MARCELLO GOT HIS CARDS, WHERE HE SENT THEM, AND WHO SCIPIO CAREFFA WAS. TOWARD THE END OF P. 7 I RESUME WITH DUMMETT, ON THE CARY SHEET, INCORPORATING INFORMATION FROM MARCELLO IN MY POST.

mikeh wrote:Could you be more specific, Huck, at least in hypothesis? Marcello writes:

At that time it happened that Scipio Caraffa had just returned from the region of Provence, where he had spent the most delightful and refined time in the fairest comfort of your singular realm; and I considered most observantly his conversation concerning the best and happiest conditions of my lords. By some chance the conversation turned to this game, which is called “Triumph”, certain cards that had been offered to me and which I give as they were given.

Scipio Caraffa had just returned from Provence. I assume that Savoy is part of Provence. So Scipio probably got the cards while in Savoy, perhaps from Marie of Savoy herself, who by then was in Savoy, after first taking what she wanted from the palace. Also, they--Marcello and Scipio--were discussing "this game, which is called 'Triumph'". So there might have been were other versions of the game there in Savoy, where Scipio had just been (or other places in France he had been), besides just the "game of the gods". Is that right? Or is it just that Marcello knows other versions of the game, probably from serving with Sforza? And where did the conversation between Marcello and Scipio, in which he presumably acquired the cards, take place? Where was this camp?

Savoy is NOT part of Provence. Renee d'Anjou was ruler in Provence, and his interest was to recapture Naples and to fight against Alfonso of Aragon. As the relations were potentially hostile between Venice and Naples, Venice looked for some relation to Renee.
We interpreted all, that Marcello got these first cards himself ("not good enough for the hands of a queen"), not Scipio Caraffa. Later Marcello puts these cards in the same parcel, which contained also the Michelino deck and the Martiano text book and was transported by Cossa (close cooperator to Renee d'Anjou).
The camp was likely close to Crema or Lodi, where Marcello mostly was, but there is no guarantee. Marcello in his function as provedittore needed a position to communicate quickly to Venice to receive orders or to report the progress.

We had a report, that Scipio Caraffa was used as an ambassador at the French court some time before (1447 ?, I remember). Likely he travelled much between France and Venice. And his function in the visit was likely, that he brought a positive letter from Renee to the request of Sforza in the letter of end of February. Marcello got a function for Renee in the year in 1449, and later h was invited to become a member of the knight order of Renee (order of the Cescent, also Sforza became a member), and so the series of presents from Marcello to Renee started.

http://trionfi.com/0/l/14/

The army, which fought against Colleoni, was 1/3 French, 2/3 were Savoy troops. There were many different political interests around Milan.

.....

So it seems likely that decks with the Pope and Popess were available near the Vatican, But I still think that they are not the sort that Swiss guards in the Vatican would have been likely to be taught how to play tarot with. There were many other ways Swiss soldiers could have learned tarot using Pope and Popess decks, earlier.

We've he fact, that we've with 1572 the earliest Troggen document in Switzerland, not before. Naturally some Swiss soldiers as some tourists or some pilgrims or some business men or some students from the North or from France will have noted Tarocchi decks during their stay in Italy, there's no doubt about this.

"No document" means simply "no document". It doesn't say, that "no document" describes the reality of the presence of Tarocchi in Switzerland or elsewhere, it just describes nothing, cause there is no document. It just might say, that nobody looked at the right places. Florence once had also "no document" ... till the collections of Franco Pratesi. Now Florence looks like "full of Trionfi card card documents", more than anywhere else.

Huck wrote:

I don't think, that the Marziano pack was found in Pavia. This my interpretation is based on the idea, that Marcello didn't just invent a story of difficulties in his letter to Isabelle da Lorraine, but just the truth.
http://trionfi.com/jacopo-marcello-letter-1449
In February 1449 Sforza wrote a letter to Renee d'Anjou and introduced Marcello as a man, which might be useful to Renee. From this I conclude, that Renee didn't know Marcello personally before (the letter is reported by Margaret King).

By Marcello’s own admission in that letter he received the Marziano deck “Last year in the field of Milan, when I was in the camp of the highest and most celebrated leader Francesco Sforza….” Sforza had already conquered Pavia and received it as fief from the Ambrosian Republic. The Visconti palace in Pavia hosted the massive Visconti ducal library – considering the Marziano deck came with a text would it not be natural to be housed there as well?

As for Filippo to have engaged his personal hobbies with his unloved Savoy wife is unlikely in the extreme. On the other hand, we do know that Bianca did retrieve literary texts in 1447 after the Ambrosian revolution, as Mikeh quotes Hirsch here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=917&p=13621&hilit= ... nca#p13621

The likeliest reconstruction of events, in my opinion: Either the Marziano deck was in the Pavia library to begin with or was brought along with other treasures, cultural or otherwise, that could be salvaged from the Milanese Visconti castles, to Pavia, which Sforza controlled in 1448 (it is unclear to me from which castle’s treasure room Bianca retrieved the Visconti Hours). On 10-18-1448 the Treaty of Rivoletta is signed between Venice and Sforza. Marcello is with Sforza “outside Milan” by January, 1449 (King: 268-9). Marcello says he has already come by the Marziano deck the previous year, 1448, but that had to have been during the previous three months after the peace, so October-December, when he and Sforza had moved back in on Milan (nothing in the historical record suggests Sforza ever lost Pavia after his change of allegiance from the Ambrosian to the Venetian Republic). “Outside Milan” naturally encompasses Pavia. The gift of the cards to Isabella was to cement the triple alliance of Venice and Sforza with Rene, not Savoy.

Phaeded

I think, that, if the Michelino deck was in Pavia under the control of Sforza, Marcello couldn't tell of great difficulties, that he endured to get the deck.

"Last year" in the words of Marcello could mean "end of March 1449" from the perspective of Marcello in November 1449. It's not clear to me, when the relevant year started, either in Venice or according the Milanese calculation. .

Before Marcello got a positive reaction on the letter of Francesco Sforza in February 1449, Marcello had no reason to think about a good gift for Isabella of Lorraine. No reason, no interest in having a specific nice deck. That should be logical.

Some details of the Chronology to Marcello in Margaret L. King: The Death of the Child Valerio Marcello (1994), p 270-273

The letter



Perhaps the camp in question


The knight order story

Huck,
Fair enough on their year not ending until March, but there would certainly be difficulties - or at least lines of communication to worry about – if the deck were in Pavia and the enemy were in nearby Milan. But at all events, we are talking about Marcello in Sforza’s camp; exactly why would Visconti’s widow have anything to do with the husband of Visconti’s bastard daughter? And your theory basically calls for her to send a gift to Sforza’s camp a few months before begging her brother to attack Sforza ("n the spring of 1449 the widowed Duchess of Milan persuaded her brother Louis of Savoy to make war round Novara in alliance with the [Ambrosian] Republic.” Ady: 53)

Huck wrote:
Before Marcello got a positive reaction on the letter of Francesco Sforza in February 1449, Marcello had no reason to think about a good gift for Isabella of Lorraine. No reason, no interest in having a specific nice deck. That should be logical.

I’m not sure what your point is (and what it has to do with your Savoy theory) but I happen to have my copy of King at work – perhaps you didn’t page far enough back into the chronology to note this: “1448-1449 - G. Manetti is Florence’s representative in Venice, urging Venice to support Rene d’Anjou in displacing Alfonso in Naples….urging a Venetian-Florentine league to snatch the initiative” (King: 269). Rene of course wanted Sforza, which your own passages from King show him as bound to his allegiance to Venice, and they’d have to OK his involvement in Naples (which was of course an excuse – he had no intention of doing anything other than taking Milan). Again, the Treaty between Venice and Sforza took place in October 1448 and they would have of course wanted to bring in as many allies as possible, such as Rene. Rene wanted something in return: military support against Naples. Instead the Sforza/Venetian alliance, in the person of Marcello, threw Rene a bone (to use an American idiom) – a unique gift for his wife. Perhaps even Florence was simply humouring Rene in seeking out Venetian/Sforzan arms for his Neapolitan adventure, as even Cosimo would want Sforza to secure Milan first. The issue of Rene, however, did not suddenly arise in February 1449, and again, not sure how he matters at all in terms of the basic fact that Marcello comes by the Marziano deck in Sforza’s camp somewhere outside of Milan. The simplest conclusion is that a sortie of Sforza’s came by the deck and Marcello knew exactly how to press it into the most useful service for the Venetian/Sfoerza alliance: a placating gift to would-be ally Rene.

Phaeded

Phaeded wrote:Huck,
Fair enough on their year not ending until March, but there would certainly be difficulties - or at least lines of communication to worry about – if the deck were in Pavia and the enemy were in nearby Milan. But at all events, we are talking about Marcello in Sforza’s camp; exactly why would Visconti’s widow have anything to do with the husband of Visconti’s bastard daughter? And your theory basically calls for her to send a gift to Sforza’s camp a few months before begging her brother to attack Sforza ("n the spring of 1449 the widowed Duchess of Milan persuaded her brother Louis of Savoy to make war round Novara in alliance with the [Ambrosian] Republic.” Ady: 53)

Sorry, I don't recognize my earlier words or theory in "And your theory basically calls for her to send a gift to Sforza’s camp a few months before begging her brother to attack Sforza.("n the spring of 1449 the widowed Duchess of Milan persuaded her brother Louis of Savoy to make war round Novara in alliance with the [Ambrosian] Republic.” Ady: 53)"
So I assume an misunderstanding.

Earlier I wrote:

Savoy had been urged by Filippo Maria's earlier wife, as we know, a Savoy daughter, to engage for Milan and the Ambrosian republic before. In May a separate peace was negotiated between Savoy and the attackers of Milan. Part of the end of the fights with Savoy had been, that anti-pope Felix stopped his resistance and returned to the other church.

Cardinalate. Created cardinal bishop in the consistory of April 23, 1449 (4). His ambassadors presented his oath of obedience to the pope in Spoleto on June 20, 1449. Named bishop of the suburbicarian see of Sabina and papal legate and apostolic vicar of Savoie and the part of Bernese territory included in the diocese of Lausanne, and was given a pension from the apostolic treasury. Dean of the Sacred College (5). He retired to Ripaille. He was the last antipope.

http://www2.fiu.edu/~mirandas/bios1449.htm#Savoie

For this situation in May it seems plausible, that Marcello got rather direct contact to the widow of Filippo Maria Visconti. Abd it seems plausible, that she either knew, who has gotten some of the treasures plundered in Milan or that she herself might have managed to save some of them. And this might have been the way, how Marcello got the deck, either in a short or somewhat longer way. In November 1449 at least, he had the deck and the accompanying deck.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1019&hilit=marcello&start=50

I speak in this passage of 1449. "Savoy had been urged by Filippo Maria's earlier wife, as we know, a Savoy daughter, to engage for Milan and the Ambrosian republic before." So I address earlier, what you repeat later with ("n the spring of 1449 the widowed Duchess of Milan persuaded her brother Louis of Savoy to make war round Novara in alliance with the [Ambrosian] Republic."

And I speak of May (1449), when I state: "For this situation in May it seems plausible, that Marcello got rather direct contact to the widow of Filippo Maria Visconti." This relates to a separate peace set up in May 1449 between Savoy and Sforza/Venice, and not to a situation before the short war between Savoy and Sforza/Venice, as you declare as a part of my theory with "And your theory basically calls for her to send a gift to Sforza’s camp a few months before begging her brother to attack Sforza.".

*******

Ady, which you quote, gives the scene in this way:

https://archive.org/stream/cu3192403092 ... 6/mode/2up

Well, I found out what I wanted to know. The gift and the letter was going to Provence. And Marcello got it himself.

The letter seems to imply that they already knew about triumphs in Provence, but not this kind. So then "a new kind of triumphs" might mean "a card game, as opposed to poems and processions" or it might mean "a new kind of triumph card game". In other words, we don't know whether or not they knew about the game of triumphs already in Provence. Too bad. It would be nice to know.

It seems to me that there are many ways Marcello could have gotten the deck. Nobles took what they thought was important out of the palace in Milan before it burned. Other people during the looting might have grabbed it, too, as material to make deals with. Also, in Pavia there was the famous "second court" (Dummett's explanation for the two banners on the Love card). It didn't have to be in the library, although it could have been. I also don't see why Bianca's mother couldn't have had it--or Bianca herself, in storage somewhere. In that case, it might have been difficult to get. I'm not sure I can imagine Bianca being willing to give it up, however, unless it was important for Sforza, as opposed to Marcello. Maybe it was.

mikeh wrote:Well, I found out what I wanted to know. The gift and the letter was going to Provence. And Marcello got it himself.

The letter seems to imply that they already knew about triumphs in Provence, but not this kind. So then "a new kind of triumphs" might mean "a card game, as opposed to poems and processions" or it might mean "a new kind of triumph card game". In other words, we don't know whether or not they knew about the game of triumphs already in Provence. Too bad. It would be nice to know.

It seems to me that there are many ways Marcello could have gotten the deck. Nobles took what they thought was important out of the palace in Milan before it burned. Other people during the looting might have grabbed it, too, as material to make deals with. Also, in Pavia there was the famous "second court" (Dummett's explanation for the two banners on the Love card). It didn't have to be in the library, although it could have been. I also don't see why Bianca's mother couldn't have had it--or Bianca herself, in storage somewhere. In that case, it might have been difficult to get. I'm not sure I can imagine Bianca being willing to give it up, however, unless it was important for Sforza, as opposed to Marcello. Maybe it was.

Sure, there is more than one way, how Marcello got this deck. But it seems, that Marcello first attempted to produce a deck himself. Then he got knowledge of he deck. Then still he had problems to find it. Then he even had to cooperate with the enemy. That's his report, which possibly is exaggerating the real difficulties.

Ross translated ..
http://trionfi.com/jacopo-marcello-letter-1449

But these particular cards [the cheap deck in the camp] I regarded as unworthy of so great majesty (as indeed only the highest ornament and decoration ought to be seen by a king). In the desire of being satisfying to you, and being concerned for your spirit and study, I diligently set to work inquiring into how someone among the class of most highly skilled artisans of these things might be found [so in search for an artist]. With the thought of such an enormous undertaking anguishing me vehemently, and taxing my resources, all the while my heart told me I should press on with it.
Now I was aware that the most distinguished, illustrious Prince of Milan had thought out a certain new and exquisite sort of triumphs, ...
[neither Franco Pratesi, Ross or me had the idea, that "new and exquisite sort of triumphs" might mean "new in Provence, and Provence already knew Trionfi decks", as far I know; and I would think, that still everybody of us would take that as rather improbable. Ross argued in the past, that "new" means, that the full Tarot structure already existed as the "common Trionfi".]
... being, as he was of everything, at one time the keenest in the invention of all the greatest things. I would briefly explain them now to you. They were indeed sixteen celestial princes and barons, to which were added four kings presiding over different kinds of birds. Afterward he gave the plan of this entire game to someone most learned among men, most expert in both the stars and the heaven, to be set up and described. Nor with this was that prince content, being provided with a great spirit and highest ingenuity: he summoned Michelino, the finest painter, another Polycletus of our time, that he should paint this entire game with greatest artifice and ornament. Therefore by the highest Prince was this invented: such great elegance as these being worthy to be known by your majesty.
With the above in the back of my mind especially for this reason, I brought together in planning all my care, thought, industry, study, spirit, and mind. I exerted all of the keenest ingenuity for it, I started to pursue it night and day, how by negotiation after the death of the former prince, I might be influential for you. [it really sounds, as if it was a major project].
Indeed, for a long time it was difficult for one book and deck of cards to be able to be found among the furniture, so much of the riches and splendours of the Duke being scattered as well as destroyed in the disturbance. And because of the difficulty of things I would not have been able to investigate and to know, in any way whatsoever, unless I had depended on the enemy himself.
[The enemies are involved]
Truly, seeing that I myself am persuaded, that nothing is so arduous, nothing so difficult, that it should not be able to be thought out, discovered, accomplished and fulfilled, by the best and most faithful soul for his Lord and Prince.

Well, he got it. The note about the enemy led me to the assumption, that he got help of the earlier wife of Filippo Maria Visconti, to which he might have gotten access via the peace negotiaions in May 1449 with Savoy.
It seems plausible, that Marcello exaggerated at least a little bit the difficulties, that he had, but that he totally made up a great story looks not likely.

*********

I earlier interpreted, that Marcello's engagement to find a capable artist to make a beautiful deck led to a journey of Mantegna to Milan in spring 1449 (it's proven, that Mantegna later worked for Marcello; I saw once a Mantegna journey indicated in the web, but I lost the source ... a journey in war time from Padova to Milan looks not probable, if there weren't a concrete reason; the concrete reason might have been Marcello's rather special interest).

Mantegna worked at this time at a chapel in Padova, which knew two teams of artists (Ovetari Chapel in the Eremitani Church in Padua), Giovanni d'Alemagna and Antonio Vivarini and two young Paduans, Niccolò Pizzolo and Andrea Mantegna.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovetari_Chapel

A Giovanni d'Alemagna quondam Johannes (or similar) appeared in a 1446 Ovetari chapel document, a Giovanni d'Alemagna quondam Johannes of Colonia (or similar) had appeared 1427 in a playing card document in Bologna.

"quondam" means, that the given father was deceased at the time of the document. So we have a "John from Germany, son of a dead John" in both documents, which opens the possibility, that the John of 1427, playing card producer, was the same man working at the Ovetari chapel in 1446.

If Marcello knew about the earlier occupation of John, son of a dead John, he likely would have asked this person for the production of a very nice deck. Marcello lived in Monselice, and for this reason he knew the painters in Padova.
John was possibly not interested, but Mantegna possibly was. So we have (possibly, the evidence is missing, as already indicated) an unusual journey of Mantegna to Milan in the mid of war time.

We have evidence, that Mantegna was end of May 1449 in Ferrara, and not at the Ovetari chapel in Padova (actually he got later problems in Padova, cause he had left his work). If we assume, that he had before in Milan, getting the commission of Marcello in the war camp, Mantegna possibly knew, that a person in Ferrara (Sagramoro) knew well about the production of Trioni decks. So Mantegna went to Ferrara, where he is recorded for making a portrait (not for the production of playing cards).
Marcello in the meantime or some time later might have gotten new information, which made him change the direction. He now wanted the Michelino deck, and not a new deck. So the (possible) commission for Mantegna dropped in the water, but we have evidence, that Mantegna got later other commissions from Marcello till 1559, when Mantegna went to Mantova. Actually it's said, that Marcello helped to give Mantegna his dominant position in Mantova.

If this my reconstruction of the events is true, then at least it's clear, that Marcello engaged very much for the deck for Isabella.

************

We have the curious detail, that the name Mantegna was connected to the Mantegna Tarocchi, though nobody believes, that it was made by Andrea Mantegna. Michael J Hurst believes in later errors and has a plausible argumentation.
Nonetheless there might have been something in 1449, which connected Mantegna to Trionfi cards.

Huck wrote,

The note about the enemy led me to the assumption, that he got help of the earlier wife of Filippo Maria Visconti, to which he might have gotten access via the peace negotiations in May 1449 with Savoy.

Thanks for bringing out the reference to "the enemy". That excludes Bianca. But it still might mean anybody against Sforza's takeover of Milan, not only friends of the Repubic, Savoys, but even a Visconti or someone from the old regime, who knew about the goods taken from the Visconti castle. Or even someone from the Ambrosian Republic, for goods taken out after the Castle fell into their hands.

Why would he have needed to have access to Maria in peace negotiations with Savoy? And where was she then?

Huck wrote,

[neither Franco Pratesi, Ross or me had the idea, that "new and exquisite sort of triumphs" might mean "new in Provence, and Provence already knew Trionfi decks", as far I know; and I would think, that still everybody of us would take that as rather improbable. Ross argued in the past, that "new" means, that the full Tarot structure already existed as the "common Trionfi".

I vaguely remember Ross saying that last. That seems to me seeing more than is there. Whatever "new" is opposed to, however, it is something that would be familiar to his reader, Isabelle, i.e. poems, processions, or cards.

In that regard, Ross wrote once (2006, at http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.ph ... post937439)

There was already a deck in France - the deck that Marcello had sent to Isabelle of Lorraine in Launay, near Angers, in 1449. It was a local deck, presumably, made in or around Milan. But there's no telling what "style" of deck it was (this is in addition to the more famous Michelino da Besozzo deck).

According to this, Marcello's letter didn't go anywhere near Rene in Provence. I couldn't find a Launay near Angers. I did find one near Rouen. Angers is in the Loire Valley. Is it correct to assume that this was a tarot deck of some sort, perhaps the one that he had been given by Caraffa (made in Italy)? The reason I ask is that Ross then uses, in 2006, this letter as evidence that at least one tarot deck was in France by 1450, namely, the one sent by Marcello along with the Michelino. If so, Isabelle would presumably already know how to play the game, since Marcello doesn't talk about it.

For me the issue is whether this letter is evidence that the tarot was known in France before the French invasions of Italy.