Sons of Antonio di Dino

In the researchers of Franco Pratesi a Florentine card producer with the name "Antonio di Dino appeared. The relevant passages to this person are collected at ...

In a recent discussion MikeH asked something about Antonio di Dino and I replied ...
Huck wrote:
mikeh wrote: I'd like to know how it is determined that this Antonio di Dino is a different person from the cardmaker Antonio di Dino that comes up in Franco's studies, starting in 1441 and making triumph decks in 1452.

Franco Pratesi agreed, that "Antonio di Dino" should be "Antonio di Dino Canacci".
The name form "Antonio di Dino" isn't so rare. In the web might be 4 (or 3) different Antonio di Dino at a comparable time.
One is the engraver, 1428 and 1441, apparently not a rich man.
Another one is part of a sodomy case, around 1437, if I remember correctly.

One is a banker, who works for the Medici (maybe since 1457). This could be identical to Antonio di Dino, the producer of playing cards, but also abacus boards (according Franco's documents, which he commented:
"The case of Antonio di Dino is somewhat particular, because the first time that we find him in book 12792 he did not supply cards. He was then mentioned as a maker and supplier of abaci, or counting frames (l. 2r – April 1442). Later on, we find him indicated on one occasion as a "tavolacciaio", maker of tables (12793, 25r – 1449)).
Apparently, his production corresponded to an intermediate level, not as expensive as the cards produced by Antonio di Simone, but not as cheap as those of Niccolò di Calvello, listed below.).
... ).
In the web there is Antonio di Dino Canacci, who owns an Abacus school and he's rather active with it (already around 1442, if I remember correctly). The Canacci family is not poor. It seems, that Antonio is a major heir, maybe around the 1450s. It might be, that Antonio di Dino leaves some time after this the playing card industry and becomes the banker.

Palazzo Canacci .... "Nel 1455 Dino di Antonio Canacci acquistò l’immobile di Antonio de’ Bardi ... " ... a-Baldocci

In short, there's some doubt, if "Antonio di Dino" had been an engraver or cardmaker at all, but might be just a business man, who (also) dealt with cards and also dealt with abacus boards and "tables" and also organized the abacus school.

What we have from the silk dealers, is, that their Antonio di Dino appears first at 1439-09-11 together with Piero, a cardmaker. Then an "Antonio" appears and together with the already known Piero he dominates the supplier function for the silk dealers in 1439 and 1440 (as far we can see this).

Around the time, when Antonio di Simone appears in the silk dealer business 1442-05-02 "Antonio" disappears and "Antonio di Dino" comes back - in the lists. But possibly he was all the time present as "Antonio".
The new use of "Antonio di Dino" as name instead of "Antonio" might explain from the condition, that with "Antonio di Simone" it became necessary to differentiate between the both Antonio.

Cardmaker "Piero" disappears with 1440, but curiously reappears in 1451, after 11 years, with Antonio di Dino being present all the time till 1453.

Likely one has to interpret, that Antonio di Dino had been all time the business man, and Piero had been his cardmaker all the time, working for Dino, who just managed the sales as part of his greater business .

Antonio di Dino appears twice as the maker of "expensive decks" (totally 5 decks in the early Trionfi deck time of 1441), Grande cards with gold, 24 soldi.

In 1445-01-21 "Antonio" and "Antonio di Dino" appear both in a document, which is not clear (something looks as if it is remarked as "not true"). The document contains also a Trionfi deck for 25 soldi. That's 5th oldest Trionfi deck note we have.

But usually Antonio di Dino delivered decks for 5 soldi and Antonio di Simone delivered the more qualified decks for 9 soldi and Matteo Ballerini delivered the cheap decks (1-2 soldi), sold in dozens. This state was very normal till the begin of the 1450s.

In 1452 Antonio de Dino appears as a "sure" Trionfi card producer, as the second name, that we have from Florence, after "Giovanni di Domenico" in 1449.

Also, does "garzone" ("boy") here mean son, apprentice, or what?
Apprentice, I would think.

Then there is this Filippo di Marco, same last name as our dal Ponte (which is his trade name, for where his shop was), as well as 2 decks in 1434 I didn't know about. Franco (or is it Huck?) observes:
In Filippo di Marco's productions the number of decks is not clear. So it isn't part of of the calculation. Two records refer to Florentine productions, which were sold to Ferrara (Imperatori cards in 1423, 2 other decks in 1434). These are not considered, cause they fit more with the generally expensive handling at the Ferrrarese court.
I'd like to know more about the 2 decks in 1434, too. Where, when, who, what?
That's my consideration. "2 (expensive) decks" went to Ferrara in 1434, and we don't know, who made them. These (again) might have been done by "Antonio di Dino" (the time difference from 1434 to 1439, when Antonio di Dino made playing cards, and to 1441, when he made "expensive playing cards", isn't so big).

Another expensive deck went to Ferrara and it was made ...

1437-11-02 - 4 decks (20 Soldi) by Simone di Ser Antonio Fazi

... and this Simone di Ser Antonio Fazi might have been well the father of "Antonio di Simone", who started in 1442 to supply the silk dealers with the 9-soldi cards category.

Then I discovered a new note, earlier not considered ....
Huck wrote:Well, sometimes the web improves ...



The Building of Renaissance Florence: An Economic and Social History
Richard A. Goldthwaite
JHU Press, Oct 1, 1982 - Business & Economics - 459 pages ... ci&f=false

... and ..


... which seems to say, that just in the year 1438 Antonio di Dino Canacci had a "more important role" than usually. That's the year of the council in Ferrara.

If one assumes, that the 1434 decks were from Antonio di Dino, then we might expect business connections to Ferrara for him.
For the silk dealer lists we have him "active with playing cards" since September 1439, short after the council of Florence. But the silk dealer are very humble in the playing card trade, we cannot expect their books to mirror the full activity of Antonio di Dino with his greater ideas.

The astonishing thing about Antonio being prior in 1438, is, that nearly all other members of his family had many "terms" and seldom "prior-function", but Antonio has no terms at all and becomes immediately prior. And actually we have, that Dino had left the business of his father, as told before.
This seems to say, that Dino was extremely useful just in the year 1438, and this might be natural, if we assume, that Dino had the best business relations in Ferrara - at least better than those of other members of the guild.
Further I added this ...
Image ... /ulivi.pdf
There are other places, in which a relation between Abacus and Antonio di Dino is given.
The new notes contained the names of three sons of Antonio di Dino: Giovanni, Bartholomeo and Dino. As web material to Antonio di Dino is generally difficult to get I decided to research the sons instead. Sometimes one gets information about the father, when one knows something about his sons.


Start for the sons of Antonio di Dino Canacci

A first interesting result was this, mainly about a grandson, not a son ....

Education and Society in Florentine Tuscany: Teachers, Pupils and Schools, C. 1250-1500, Volume 1
Robert Black
BRILL, 2007 - History - 838 pages ... ci&f=false



According this Raffaele di Giovanni di Dino Canacci (* 1456) was a bad boy, but a good Abacus specialist. As abacus specialist he seems to have followed the ways of his grandfather.
At the end of the passage we meet the school, which once was owned by Antonio di Dino Canacci (1442-1445, reported lready before). Here it is suspected, that the location became a hotel later.


The next note is about Giovanni Canacci, son of Antonio di Dino. The scene takes place at 30th of March 1498, and it prepared the death of Savonarola at 23rd May 1498. Giovanni hated Savonarola:

Death in Florence: the Medici, Savonarola and the Battle for the Soul of the Renaissance City
Paul Strathern
Random House, Oct 31, 2011 - Art - 448 pages ... ci&f=false


Giovanni is also mentioned for 20th of May 1498 ...


.. and at other days in this matter. That seems to be the great story of his life, especially his contribution at 30th of March. I found this at many places.


A smaller entry finds him here:

The history of Italy...
Francesco Guicciardini
J.Towers, 1753 - Italy ... 22&f=false


Franceso Guicciardini became then a great historian ...
..., the name Canacci is only mentioned once in his book. But Giovanni Canacci sat with Ficino on one table.


Giovanni Corsi (1506) wrote this about Ficino:
It is easy to appreciate how many friends he had and the kind of people they were from the dedications of his books, and also from the volumes of letters which, as I have stated earlier, were mostly brought together and put in order by Ficino's nephew. But among others who kept him intimate company almost daily were Bernardo Rucellai, Giovanni Canacci and Bindaccio Ricasoli. These were men of unimpeachable integrity and learning; in the words of the poet, 'the Earth has borne none more fair.'(53)
[53: Horace, Satires, I, V, 41.]

Bernardo was outstanding for his lofty spirit and his authority so that in the conduct of affairs his skill was second to none of his age. He was preeminent as a man of letters, and pure in speech. His was a free spirit, a slave to none. His respect for antiquity was remarkable. In short, there was nothing in the man that did not befit a patrician and a senator; but more of him elsewhere.

Canacci was serious in his ways, grave of speech, agreeably refined and very quick-witted; his character and way of life call to mind the Cincinnati and the ancient Serrani.(54)
[54: Cincinnatus was the surname of L. Quintius, who was summoned by the Senate from his modest farm to assume the office of Dictator when Rome was threatened by hostile forces. He returned to his farm when the danger had passed. Serranus was the surname of Attilius Regulus who was also summoned from his farm to public office during a period of crisis.]

Bindaccio had a calm and mild disposition, a very gentle manner and a most generous heart.

With these men Marsilio often used to discuss serious matters of philosophy, and sometimes he would jest and converse with them.

From a rough view through this text ...
Storia dell' Accademia platonica di Firenze ... 7/mode/2up
... I get the impression, that Giovanni Canacci had been a rather manifest member of the platonic academy.

Back to the father Antonio di Dino Canacci

I find a passage (p. 793-795), which puzzles me and it contains something about the father Antonio Canacci (if I interpret this correctly).




I need help here, I don't understand all and everything. I think, that a person Antonio d'Agostino da S. Miniato, called by Ficino always "Antonius Seraphicus Miniatensis", was born in 1433 (so the same age as Ficino himself) and had been during a hostile siege of Alfonso d'Aragon 1448 (Antonio and Ficino then both 15 years old) in Piombino and had made a poem about the event. Somehow he presented that negative poem about Alfonso in Florence in the house of Antonio Canacci.

Likely this had been short after the event of 1448?
In Footnote 2, Ashburn in 1698, speaks of his own adolescentia ... and then ends: Et che vieta nominarlo, che nè degno? El nome è Antonio Canacci ..." etc.

The whole seems to be a funny teenager story in the house of Antonio Canacci, which makes sense, if I assume that Giovanni Canacci and Ficino had been friends since youth (otherwise one wonders, how the funny story could take place there). And stayed it for their life. This would be an interesting fact, if it's true, and it would explain a few things.


I found another sentence about Antonio di Dino ....

Medieval Christianity in Practice
edited by Miri Rubin
Florentine Marriage in 15th century in 15th century
by Christiane Klapisch-Zuber ... 22&f=false

The text is interesting in itself. It seems to be a Medici marriage in 1432 (somehow it's forgotten to tell, who wrote the original story and who marries whom precisely). But Piero di Medici, son of Cosimo, is called a close relative. One gift (crimson velvet) was bought from Antonio Canacci, but was still not paid. Antonio worked also in the silk business.



A letter of Rinaldi Albizzi in 1429, which contains a note about "Antonio Canacci" in ...
Commissioni di Rinaldo Degli Albizzi per il Comune di Firenze dal 1399 al 1433: 1426-1433. 3
coi tipi di M. Cellini e C., 1873 - 862 pages ... 22&f=false

"page 453 (in a letter to "Ormanni" in 1429)
"A Maso dico, per la roba della Susanna: come sarò costà farò il dovere a Antoni Canacci; e seio soprastessi, provederò a tempo, e non si potrà dolere."

further a snippet at page 630,under the top line:

"Debitore della ragione che dice in Maso"
"Antonio di Dino canacci setaiuolo, resta a dare, per ragione di drappi con lui. fior. 62, sol. 25, den. 6 a fior"


A note which has an "Antonio Canacci", but likely belongs to "Giovanni di Antonio Canacci" in ...
Cesare Borgia, figlio di Papa Alessandro VI
Filippo de' Nerli
1859 - Florence ... 22&f=false

"Furono anche ne' medesimi tempi confinati nelle car-c ceri delle Stinche Antonio Canacci e Agostino del Nero, e a Ficino di Cherubino Ficiui, per alcune parole dette da lui in onore della casa de' Medici, fu per sentenza della Quarantla ..."

Re: Sons of Antonio di Dino

Searching for Dino di Antonio Canacci

For Dino it's already known, that he bought the later Palazzo Canacci in 1455. ... CDIQ6AEwAQ

If this information is correct, then Dino would have bought a rather expensive house in the rather young age of 18.

I get a snippet: "bought on behalf of Dino di Antonio di Dino Canacci and brothers, 1455" ... which somehow looks more logical.
The problem is, what's with the father? Has he died? Or is he still living, at least till the date "40 years after 1467"?


Istoria Fiorentina, Volume 9
Marchiònne (di Coppo Stefani), Ildefonso (di San Luigi)
Cambiani, 1781 - 427 pages

Very confusing ... the author himself is confused a little bit about his documents.






Dino is the son of Antonio di Dino Canacci. That's clear. But the mother is not so clear.

The mother (and Antonio's wife) seems to have been the sister of Giovenco di Lorenzo della Stufa. This was likely the following banker, working for the Medici, first in Rome (1432) and then in Basel (1439), then also in Burgundy and England, even in Tunesia and Constantinople etc. ... rafico%29/
... a longer biography. Likely the most famous person of the della Stufa family.


Costanza, a daughter of Antonio di Dino Canacci

... married in 1559

Image ... kQ6AEwAjgy

and had a son CASAVECCHIA, Filippo
"Figlio di Banco di Francesco di Banco e di Costanza d'Antonio di Dino Canacci, nacque a Firenze nel 1472" ... rafico%29/

Re: Sons of Antonio di Dino

I (personally) arrived at the question, what a "prior" is in Florence (cause the Canacci were so often priors). Wiki knew it ... it's not so complicated. Good, that I learned it.
The Signoria of Florence

The Signoria was the government of medieval and renaissance Florence. Its nine members, the Priori, were chosen from the ranks of the guilds of the city: six of them from the major guilds, and two from the minor guilds. The ninth became the Gonfaloniere of Justice.

Selection of members

The names of all guild members over thirty years old were put in eight leather bags called borse. Every two months these bags were taken from the church of Santa Croce, where they were ordinarily kept, and in a short ceremony drawn out at random. Only men who were not in debt, had not served a recent term, and had no relation to the names of men already drawn, would be considered eligible for office.

Service in the Signoria

Immediately after they were elected, the nine were expected to move into the Palazzo della Signoria, where they would remain for the two months of their office. There they were paid a modest sum to cover their expenses and were provided with green-liveried servants. The Priori had a uniform of crimson coats, lined with ermine and with ermine collars and cuffs.

In undertaking their governmental duties, the Signoria was required to consult two other elected councils collectively known as Collegi. The first was the Dodici Buonomini, with twelve members, while the second, the Sedici Gonfaloniere, consisted of sixteen people. Other councils, such as the Ten of War, the Eight of Security and the Six of Commerce, were elected as the need arose.
Later the Medici invented further control organs (to assure their position), the "100" and the "70".

Re: Sons of Antonio di Dino

I worked on that passage you said you wanted help on, Huck, but I, too, found it puzzling. On the top of the second page, he seems to be talking about Antonio Canacci, but then says that he was tutor in the house of Antonio Canacci. I don't get it. Are there two Antonios?

Another problem is understanding the Latin, which seems to invert the Italian, unless I got the subjects and objects of the verbs mixed up in one language or the other. I don't know Latin at all, I just ran it through Google. Anyway, one of them wrote the other a prophecy in verse, and the other wrote back, saying he'd visit and learn to sing the verses with lyre accompaniment. It's hard to tell who did what, although I know Ficino sang and accompanied himself on the lyre. The Italian seems to say that Antonio wrote the prophecy, but the Latin seems to say the reverse.

It's interesting, that writing prophecies is said here to have been common in the 15th century.
Antonio d'Agostino S. Miniato, always called by Ficino “Autonius Seraphicus Miniatensis”, was born shortly after 1433 the eldest among his brothers and sisters, 1 and had certainly spent part of his youth in Piombino, where, not without receiving some instruction, he remained until 1448 [corrected from 1445], at the time of the siege put on by Alfonso of Aragon, which he afterwards described in verse. 3 Giovanetto
1. Bossi Quattrocento cit p . 178-179; Ficino Works vol. I. p . 643, 725, 788,
822-823, the letter in Parisi, including p. 737, Del Bice. 797, and. 19lv. ends with this greeting, lacking in the Vulgate: "Il Marsilii bastianique memor."
2. Ashburnham 1698 contains a long treatise of education in the vernacular in the form of a letter, which leads precisely at the bottom to the date and signature: “Calendis Julii 1493 - Antonius Seraphicus miniatensis” and now at 6v the author says, “I am man and am in the world around six tens damned [danni]" and at 35r: “I have often heard him say to our mother, who still lives, of whom he is the first born” etc.
3. Rev. Ital. Scriptores Vol. XXV, from. 319-370 with the subscript: "The work compiled, and made by Ser Antonio di Messer Agostino, located at Miniato,

again we find him in Florence singing some of his tercets against Alfonso of Aragon, 1 and shortly afterwards tutor in the house of Antonio Canacci. 2 And in that conversation of men of letters, to which his profession gave him free access, 3 it is likely that he knew Ficino, to whom, in addition to his culture, he was very dear for his prowess as a singer. Once at S. Miniato Antonio sent him a prophecy in verse, which in fact were much in vogue in the fifteenth century, and Ficino wrote him back, thanked him to the stars for bringing it, and promised to stop on the return journey from Rome, where he intended to visit in S. Miniato. to be taught to sing his verses on the lyre "Gratias ingentes tibi habeo, quod me tantarum rerum participem effeciati.... Sensa tua comprobo. Quamobrem insanum te dicere vereor; nec tamen prius appellabo prophetara, quam ista videam, quae futura praenuntias. Iturus sum Romam, brevi rediturus. Quum rediero, ad te cum lyra protinus adventabo: ita me ista docebis ».. " 4 [Thanks a great deal to you, sir, because when I am a partner in doing so many things .... Your feelings might approve. For this reason, I am afraid to say I was mad, but in the first call to prophesy, which is to see what the future portends. I am going to Rome, to return soon. When I come back, I come to you with the lyre at once: so help me, teach me this"] And who knows how many other cases similar to these, of the hours spent together happily at the sound of the lyre, of which there remains more memory! Instead we witness the philosophical and literary remains of the communion of two friends. And so Autonio, whose activity as teacher of grammar and rhetoric results in that long letter - Treatise of education and education of the young – that we have already mentioned in the notes, and we will publish. On another occasion, knowing how to please Ficino, he sang his praises in a panegyric to one of his closest friends, Bernardo del Nero, and sent him his orations to read . 5 For his part, Ficino strongly recommended him, as his fellow philosopher, to Nicolò Michelozzi, because he spoke to Lorenzo, 6 and describes him in a letter as the portrait of the truly wise, not without manifest intention of reproducing his moral features in this portrait of him, and unites him with Riccardo Augiolieri and Oliviero Arduini, his preclarissimi [most enlightened?] fellow philosophers, in the introduction to his philosophical letter de miserio et stultitia de hominum [Of the poverty and stupidity of men]. 1
thesis insino in Piombino at the time of the siege put on by that Terrible Tyrant Raonese in 1448" etc.
1 Flamini “Lyrics” etc. p. 159-161.
2 Aslibur. 1698 c. 9r, "I remember being with him in my adolescence, in Florence" in the house of a citizen to teach his sons, a very natural man, truthful and with much judgment and moreover of such goodness of which I rarely find. And he who forbids nominating him, is he worthy? The name is Antonio Canacci .... » etc .
3 Ibid c. 13v . "And I say this because I have been several times present at discussions of many men of whatever literary sort .... " Etc .
4 Bambini in note 26 to the Biography of Corsi p. 318-319.
5 Ficino Works
6 Bambini in note 26 to the Biography of Corsi p. 318.

Note 1 on next page: Ficino, Works, I, p. 619, 636; see also p. 880.

Re: Sons of Antonio di Dino

1445 is a typo, it's 1448.
But your translation technology works rather good, at least in my not very critical eyes.

You think, that Ashburne's footnote is not an own experience of Ashburne, but a quote of the young Antonio. My crazy impression had been, that Ashburne spoke of an own experience ... with another Antonio Canacci. But your view makes much more sense.
You interpret him as a tutor in the house of Antonio Canacci. Possible, cause son Dino was just 12 years old.
If he was a refugee cause of the military situation, he likely simply had been in need, which would fix the date of his presence to 1448-1449.

Anyway, it would explain, that son Giovanni and this refugee Antonio were close by opportunity (which, however depends on the age of Giovanni, but I consider him older than Dino, as he had a son born in 1456 ... the interesting point might be, if Giovanni and Ficino were close friends already in youth. That's a not clear point.

Re: Sons of Antonio di Dino

Grandson Piero di Giovanni d'Antonio

Terrestrial Magnetism and Atmospheric Electricity / The Beginnings of Magnetic Observations (G. Hellman 1899)


Possibly a grandson of Antonio Canacci.


Son Giovanni and Ficino

The Humanist World of Renaissance Florence
Brian Jeffrey Maxson
Cambridge University Press, Dec 30, 2013 ... 20&f=false



Guardians of Republicanism: The Valori Family in the Florentine Renaissance
Mark Jurdjevic
Oxford University Press, Mar 6, 2008 ... no&f=false



About Ficino letters 1488-89 (letter collection Nr. 10) ... 832420.pdf


The composition of the "three C" is of interest, as Canacci had a dog in his heraldic. Well, "cane" means dog.

Image ... uselang=it

The following snippet (same source) has nothing about Canacci, but is interesting, cause Ficino had found to the interesting interpretation, that the three holy kings would be "the first Christians". Would be of interest, when he first mentioned this idea ... in view of all the discussions, that we had about the 3 men.


Interesting article.


About Ficino letters 1490-91 (letter collection Nr. 9) ... _Vol_9.pdf
In June 1490 the attacks of Pope Innocence VIII are overcome. Ficino develops the interesting expression "Mammola".


Mammola addresses with Mammalo the group of his protectors. Well, but who is Canacia? Why was she .. I could imagine, that it is a "she" ... so dangerous?
Maybe Canacci has a new wife?

There's a complex series of books to the letters. Unluckily only these both have a pdf-file.

Re: Sons of Antonio di Dino

I've found a new HORRIBLE tool to learn something.

The first, what I learned, was, that Antonio di Dino Canacci was born at March 15 in 1393 in that part of Florence, which is called "Leon Rosso".

Here ... ... Y%3D401433

If you press the lowest link at that page, you find the start page.

The page promises to have ... the whole should be not totally error-free ... KEY%3D7508

Tre maggiori (1282-1532--c. 82,000 records).
Guild elections (for 1393-1421, 1429-1444, 1465-1474, 1480-1498--c. 63,000 records).
Birth registrations (beginning in 1429--c. 21,000 records).

So let's look, what I find.


Antonio di Dino Canacci was elected as one of the 8 Priori at 27th of February 1439. He is recorded as living in S. Maria Novella. Occupation is not given.
Tpurse= 02 = special purse = Borsellino
Dpurse=1434 = the Borsa was composed 1434

Antonio di Dino Canacci was elected as one of the 12 Buonuomini at 12th of September 1441. He is recorded as living in S. Maria Novella. His occupation is SETAIUOLUS. He is part of the guild 25-Seta (Por S. Maria) [Silk].

Antonio di Dino Canacci was NOT elected as one of the 16 Gonfalonieri di Compagnia at 2nd of September 1448. NOT elected cause of ...
Rdraw="43"= In "Speculo". This generally meant that the individual was in tax arrears and was thus not eligible for office, but it might also have had other as yet uncertain meanings.
He is recorded as living in S. Maria Novella. His occupation is SETAIUOLUS. He is part of the guild 25-Seta (Por S. Maria) [Silk].

Antonio di Dino Canacci was NOT elected as one of the 12 Buonuomini at 12th of June 1449. NOT elected cause of ...
Rdraw="43"= In "Speculo". This generally meant that the individual was in tax arrears and was thus not eligible for office, but it might also have had other as yet uncertain meanings.
He is recorded as living in S. Maria Novella. His occupation is SETAIUOLUS. He is part of the guild 25-Seta (Por S. Maria) [Silk].

Well, one has to learn this system ... the whole is likely not error-free.

What's interesting in the new data: Antonio di Dino became Prior and with that part of the Signoria just in February 1439, so short after Pope Eugen, the patriarch and the emperor of Contantinople had entered the city, well correct, 14th of February it was, when as the last of the three the emperor entered, so precisely 575 years ago (if I don't consider the lost ten days of Gregory).

Just right in the hot time of our Trionfi questions.

Re: Sons of Antonio di Dino

Huck wrote,
1445 is a typo, it's 1448.
But your translation technology works rather good, at least in my not very critical eyes.
I corrected the typo; thanks. For translation I use Google and then try to turn it into readable English based on what I see in the Italian and looking up in online dictionaries the words that Google didn't get right and I'm not sure of. Before that, it's the same Google-English you would get. But perhaps Google is better at translating into English than into other languages (or possibly it is me who can't understand the other languages).

You certainly are a wiz at those obscure search engines, Huck, And finding new interesting books in English for me to get on Interlibrary Loan. Happy exploring.

Re: Sons of Antonio di Dino

The most hottest book for early card producing in Florence should be ...

"Werner Jacobsen: Die Maler von Florenz zu Beginn der Renaissance "

Though in German ... and, as I've heard, it has no registry. And it is rather long. Playing card producer play naturally a minor role.
Jacobsen found names, that no other had before: Franco extracted ...

Baldo di Piero di Antonio di Baldo (1425->1458)
Donnino di Giovanni di Francesco (1370->1447)
Filippo di Marco di Simone (1435->1458) (special article: Trionfi card painter Filippo di Marco)
Francesco di Gabriello di Nuccio
Francesco di Piero (c1360->1410)
Franco di Piero (1364->1433)
Giovanni di Donnino di Giovanni (1405->1433)
Giovanni di Franco di Piero (1426-1448)
Iacopo di Poggino di Luca «Paparello» (1398-1481) (special article: noted in Franco's articles)
Piero di Donnino di Giovanni (1413->1447)

... but indicated, that there's possible some more material to them. At least it might be worth to take a look, possibly there's somewhere a concentration on playing card production.

Re: Sons of Antonio di Dino

mikeh wrote: Another problem is understanding the Latin, which seems to invert the Italian, unless I got the subjects and objects of the verbs mixed up in one language or the other. I don't know Latin at all, I just ran it through Google. Anyway, one of them wrote the other a prophecy in verse, and the other wrote back, saying he'd visit and learn to sing the verses with lyre accompaniment. It's hard to tell who did what, although I know Ficino sang and accompanied himself on the lyre. The Italian seems to say that Antonio wrote the prophecy, but the Latin seems to say the reverse.
Hello Mike,
the Latin is a passage from the playful letter that Ficino wrote to Antonio d'Agostino da San Miniato thanking him for the prophetic verses.
Here is my translation:
Ficino wrote:Gratias ingentes tibi habeo,
I am very grateful to you

quod me tantarum rerum participem effecisti....
because you shared with me such great things.

Sensa tua comprobo.
I approve your perceptions.

Quamobrem insanum te dicere vereor;
Therefore I am embarrassed to say that you are possessed;

nec tamen prius appellabo prophetam, quam ista videam,
yet I never called you a prophet before seeing these things,

quae futura praenuntias.
that you foretell in the future.

Iturus sum Romam, brevi rediturus.
I am going to Rome, and I will come back in a short time.

Quum rediero, ad te cum lyra protinus adventabo:
When I return, I shall immediately come to you with my lyre:

ita me ista docebis.
so that you teach me [how to sing] these [verses].

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