Re: Franco Pratesi's Florentine discoveries
Posted: 26 Apr 2012, 00:58
There are 4 documents, 2 in Ferrara (1442 twice) and two in Florence (1440 + 1445), another not accepted by Michael and Ross at 1.1.1441 also from ferrara and two decks in Milan (December 1449 can't be hardly counted as 1440s). If you call this a lot of activity ... we likely have documented meanwhile 10-12-fold activity for the 1450s.robert wrote:Hi Huck,
I can't say that I really understand where you're coming from with this. I look at Ross' chart, and it's clear that we have a lot of tarot activity happening in the 1440s in Milan, Ferrara and Florence.
This are hypotheses.As Ross and Michael have pointed out, chances are that there was a lot of activity probably happening in Bologna as well, as it connects two of the other centres, but we just haven't found the evidence for it, which is no surprise if we consider that we're talking about card decks from over 500 year ago.
This didn't come from alone.What strikes me as really surprising is that we have as much as we do!
You say there's a hole between 1443 and 1448 where we don't have any evidence, only six years! Now, there's a hole in your hole! We've got a hole at 1445, right in between your dates. Do we need to fill in the five remaining years for you to be satisfied that there is a lot of evidence pointing to a game being played in different locations at the same time?
I've already pointed to the condition that 1 of 100 might be a better witness of missing activity than 0 of 25.
We don't know, what was there. There are in the documents more indications for decks with 5x14-structure or decks with 16 trumps as hints to the existence of decks with 4x14+22 - structure in the period till 1465.I sort of hate to ask these questions, but to even begin to understand where you are coming from I guess I have to... If they weren't playing with a 22 card deck in these different places, what were they playing with? Are you suggesting that in Florence, in the 1440s, they weren't using a tarot deck, they were using a Minchiate? Or, (god forbid this from flowing from my lips), a "Proto-Minchiate"? ("Ur-Minchiate" :ymsick: ) Are you still arguing that these are all different, "experimental" decks being sold?
The observation of the "hole" is of importance, cause it might indicate, that a period of increased card playing prohibition in the 1440s might have blocked the quick expansion of the Trionfi card deck genre. The aim of research is to understand, what has happened ... If there was a prohibition period, then this has to be understood. If there was a large Trionfi card distribution, then this has to be understood.
We've to understand the Biography-writer Vespasiano da Bisticc and what he told about Giannozzo Manetti:
from myself ...
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t= ... t=bisticci
Giannozzo Manetti (1393-1459)
a person of some interest in more than one way.
1. he was responsible for a sharp attack on gaming in Pistoia in 1446/1447, which adds to our general suspicion, that in the 40's of 15th century the situation for playing cards was difficult.
2. He became a crowned poetus laureatus in 1443 ... this is of interest to the general Trionfi development, for instance to Alberti's literary contest in 1441. And of special interest is Bisticci's "they crowned him with a laurel crown, a custom which had not lately been observed." ... which should mean, that an old custom was revived after a long time.
"He condemned the worthless and the sluggards. Gamblers and gaming he hated as pestiferous abominations."
http://books.google.de/books?id=lyMQTgO ... ng&f=false
"Giannozzo was governor of Pistoia and, as at Pescia, would accept neither gift nor tribute. He kept more servants and horses than the law allowed. The place was given to gaming; indeed the people thought of little else. Hating this vice as he did, he resolved to put an end to it as long as he was there, and to effect this he issued a proclamation that whoever should play any forbidden game should be taken and treated with four strokes with a rope. Moreover, he fixed a fine which every offender would have to pay, wherefore during his time of office gaming ceased."
(Source of possible interest in this matter: Giannozzo Manetti, Chronicon pistoriensis [Historia pistoriensis], in Rerum italicarum scriptores, a cura di L. A. Muratori, vol. XIX, Milano, 1731, coll. 987-1076, probably written 1446 - 1447)
Pistoia had 996 households in 1442, Manetti's work started Oktober 1446.
http://books.google.de/books?id=seDbXV9 ... ti&f=false
"On his return to Florence he was drawn for the Assembly, and about this time Messer Lionardo of Arezzo died (1443). The Signoria decided that his memory should be honoured in every possible way. It was decreed that the custom of delivering a funeral oration should be revived and Giannozzo was charged with this duty and that he should be crowned with laurel after the ancient custom. To these obsequies all the illustrious men of the city came to his coronation. Many prelates attended, as the court of Rome was then in Florence, and Giannozzo delivered an oration worthy of the subject, and they crowned him with a laurel crown, a custom which had not lately been observed."
http://books.google.de/books?id=lyMQTgO ... ng&f=false
********
Generally we have to assume, that Bisticci was against gambling (and likely also against cards). He suffered personally after the attack on Lorenzo de Medici in 1478, cause he had to leave the city. It seems, that his biographies were written after this.
When I wrote this in January 2008, I finished with this ...
Generally we have to assume, that Bisticci was against gambling (and likely also against cards). He suffered personally after the attack on Lorenzo de Medici in 1478, cause he had to leave the city. It seems, that his biographies were written after this.
Lorenzo generally was attacked, that he had a bad influence on the youth - likely the new gambling activities in connection to cards belonged to this category.
Generally Bisticci should have also suffered by the change of his own business - the new printing industry was his oppnent.
He possibly might be seen "as rather conservative" ... but generally his presentation somehow makes it difficult to believe in a strong playing card development in Florence already in 1450.
... "his presentation somehow makes it difficult to believe in a strong playing card development in Florence already in 1450." Franco Pratesi's research meanwhile has caused, that this part of my opinion (1450) wasn't correct. If there was stronger prohibition in Florence than usually, then this period must have ended earlier.
In the debate is "card playing liberality" since 1447.
As facts we have, that the Francscan San Bernardino had died at 20 May 1444. After this a promotion activity took place to force, that Bernardino should become a saint as soon as possible. This was easy, as the current pope Eugen was a friend of the Franciscans.Egen reached around 1445 the height of his power ... after he had been the longer time of his pontificate a weak pope, who was thrown out of Rom, who was abdicated by some parts of the church and replaced by an antipope. All these difficulties were overcome and Eugen looked splendid in 1445. As the Franciscans and San Bernardino had preached against card playing cards and gambling generally, this political movement might have caused higher card playing prohibition than usual. San Bernardino was made Saint in 1450 (that's very short after his death) and his promotion caused an increased importance for the Franciscan order, and this better position of the order caused, that in 1471 a Franciscan was chosen as pope with Sixtus IV (this hadn't happened since a rather long time before).
In 1447 Pope Eugen died, and the following pope Nicolaus was a lover of books and had quite another view of the world than pope Eugen (more tolerance, more humanistic ideas).
Manetti was governor in Pistoia and seems to have interpreted his mission as an action against gambling with strict methods - since end of 1446. He had the governor position only for a year - this was usual, as I understand it. When he returned to Florence, there are "mockery poems" about Manetti recorded (I wished I knew more details, I don't know the reasons and the content). Six years later (well, that's a period, about which we know now, that playing cards were en vogue in Florence), a reason was found, that Manetti went into exile.
Well, if Manetti went out to fight the dragon of gaming and gambling in Pistoia and found himself after his return in a Florence free of card playing prohibitions , that would have made a lot of lovers of card playing in Florence smile in some hidden corners .., perhaps the background or mockery poems about Manetti.
Leon Battista Alberti, a man, whom one likely has to understand as "progressive" in contrast to Manetti, who likely falls in the category "conservative", had initiated a poetical contest in Florence at October 1441, just 100 years after Petrarca had become poetus laureatus in Rome. He was frustrated by the decisions of the organization committee, and their conservative taste. A little later then Manetti became poetus laureatus.
The "hole in the Trionfi notes" has some relationship to other contemporary developments.